I don’t entirely disagree, but it’s worth noting that to some extent learning is inherently boring, like, making it more interesting makes it less effective. Reiterating the same thing to the point of boredom and beyond had been shown to be effective if I remember correctly. It’s why things like Duolingo take so much longer to teach you a language, because they’re trying so hard to be somewhat fun they actually compromise the effectiveness of the teaching.
So I do think schools need to remove distractions, especially ones engineered to be distracting like Facebook.
But your point is valid too, just because some boredom is necessary doesn’t mean they can’t do better, a lot better.
To some extent yes, I do agree with you, but if your student at least understands why they are needing to, or shows reasonable expectation that it will actually improve their life later on, you stop fighting the kid the entire way and learning becomes a whole lot easier.
I do agree that teachers shouldn’t enable it, but I don’t believe the proper response is to throw the blame strictly on the kids and remove a resource to them. Removing said resource isn’t going to make them want to be there, or make them learn anything. You need to address that issue first, otherwise it’s just going to move to the next distraction (like talking to your peers or just skipping class altogether)
Do you happen to have at hand where you saw that? Because the research that I have seen hasn’t particularly care about whether something is fun or not, but about how you engage with what you are trying to learn. In short, it boils down to use and practice.
In particular, we are talking about trying to remember something that you just learned. This, by itself, is really good for retaining things (memory is better retained when you retrieve it), and also because it is the perfect way to see what didn’t keep to, thus, try to learn again. Teaching and/or explaining to others is a close second.
The (perhaps surprising thing) I remember the most from those is that note-taking during the class didn’t positively correlate with learning things, even though that is what people think of a good student.
I am not going to pretend that boredom can’t factor into it (practice can, often, feel boring). But the better way?
I think you’re probably right actually. I suspect I read about the importance of repetition in learning which seems to be a real thing, and then either over interpreted it or read it from a source with an agenda. It’s true that repetition is critical to learning, but the idea that it’s fundamentally opposed to “fun” might have been layered on top without justification. Though I do maintain that the require practice is tough to keep fun, and is important, so I think there’s some practical truth to it even if it’s not a requirement as such.
You’re definitely correct that boredom isn’t a goal in itself, plenty of ways to be boring and teach nothing, I’ve definitely suffered through that!
Everyone wants a cheatcode at life. But there is no cheatcode for learning things. You have to do the hard work, which is hours and hours of boring repetitive stuff. That’s how your brain works and improves and retains information, from repetitive exposure.
It’s hilarious that people agree with the 10,000 hour rule, but magically think that rule shouldn’t apply to school work.
I don’t entirely disagree, but it’s worth noting that to some extent learning is inherently boring, like, making it more interesting makes it less effective. Reiterating the same thing to the point of boredom and beyond had been shown to be effective if I remember correctly. It’s why things like Duolingo take so much longer to teach you a language, because they’re trying so hard to be somewhat fun they actually compromise the effectiveness of the teaching.
So I do think schools need to remove distractions, especially ones engineered to be distracting like Facebook.
But your point is valid too, just because some boredom is necessary doesn’t mean they can’t do better, a lot better.
To some extent yes, I do agree with you, but if your student at least understands why they are needing to, or shows reasonable expectation that it will actually improve their life later on, you stop fighting the kid the entire way and learning becomes a whole lot easier.
I do agree that teachers shouldn’t enable it, but I don’t believe the proper response is to throw the blame strictly on the kids and remove a resource to them. Removing said resource isn’t going to make them want to be there, or make them learn anything. You need to address that issue first, otherwise it’s just going to move to the next distraction (like talking to your peers or just skipping class altogether)
Do you happen to have at hand where you saw that? Because the research that I have seen hasn’t particularly care about whether something is fun or not, but about how you engage with what you are trying to learn. In short, it boils down to use and practice.
In particular, we are talking about trying to remember something that you just learned. This, by itself, is really good for retaining things (memory is better retained when you retrieve it), and also because it is the perfect way to see what didn’t keep to, thus, try to learn again. Teaching and/or explaining to others is a close second.
The (perhaps surprising thing) I remember the most from those is that note-taking during the class didn’t positively correlate with learning things, even though that is what people think of a good student.
I am not going to pretend that boredom can’t factor into it (practice can, often, feel boring). But the better way?
I think you’re probably right actually. I suspect I read about the importance of repetition in learning which seems to be a real thing, and then either over interpreted it or read it from a source with an agenda. It’s true that repetition is critical to learning, but the idea that it’s fundamentally opposed to “fun” might have been layered on top without justification. Though I do maintain that the require practice is tough to keep fun, and is important, so I think there’s some practical truth to it even if it’s not a requirement as such.
You’re definitely correct that boredom isn’t a goal in itself, plenty of ways to be boring and teach nothing, I’ve definitely suffered through that!
Bingo.
Everyone wants a cheatcode at life. But there is no cheatcode for learning things. You have to do the hard work, which is hours and hours of boring repetitive stuff. That’s how your brain works and improves and retains information, from repetitive exposure.
It’s hilarious that people agree with the 10,000 hour rule, but magically think that rule shouldn’t apply to school work.