Google has put artificial intelligence at the front and center of its search bar. The most-visited site on the internet still shows the same list of links to users, but they have to scroll past a summarized response from an AI chatbot, a feature Google calls AI Overviews. The change to what was once the gateway to the rest of the internet has been profound, and the browsing habits of billions of people are shifting.
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This isn’t the first time or the last time I will see these stupid stories and provide the solution: https://tenbluelinks.org/
The real headline for these stories should be “Something on computer has changed, people refuse to even ask if it can be changed”.
They can use duck duck go or similar too.
I love the idea of DDG. However, I have the worst fucking luck getting usable results with it. Often times getting irrelevant results, even with decades of experience of practicing my search fu. I’ve even done some tests of jumping over to Bing to do the same search and getting far better results (if DDG even still uses Bing as a backend…).
Kagi is somewhat better, but is also lacking.
I use ddg 95% of the time. I only use the other ones when I can’t find what I’m looking for.
Also, turning off AI is an option in DDG.
I missed the old Google maybe 15 years ago when I switched away from it as a default search. It’s not the AI.
Yeah it wasn’t AI. It was the head of Google Ads (who got promoted to head of Google Search) that changed the search results so they were less accurate so users would spend more time on the results page and thus look at ads longer.
The Man Who Killed Google Search
There’s also the profiling - serving different results depending on whether you’re logged in or not.
serving different results depending on whether you’re logged in or not.
The real thing is serving different results depending on what your profile contains. Even if you’re not logged in, you still have a profile based on your IP address, time of day, freqency of queries, previous queries, etc.
Could be, but consider even the simplest example: being logged in, searching for something, then with the same browser, same everything, you log out and repeat the search: you will most likely get slightly different results. That might overlap with what you described as well.
They used to have an option to personalize results or not, but that went away long ago.
My recent searches are definitely personalized, which usually results in good things, but it makes it impossible to tell somebody else "hey, just search for this: … "
Yeah, google been shit for over a decade now. Not long after SEO became the norm and Google figured out a way to profit from it.
LLMs have saved internet searching. For the first time in years, i am getting (usually) relevant information for my questions.
And not some sponsored or SEO optimized shithole.
LLMs have saved internet searching. For the first time in years, i am getting (usually) relevant information for my questions.
I tend to disagree on that part. LLMs should be opt in, not opt out. They do help, but not always. For many searches that I have the answer right in the first result (sometimes even in its preview along the link) there’s an LLM running and needlessly wasting resources, summarising very often what I already know.
I agree that LLMs should be opt-in.
However i am often working on projects with garbage or huge documentation, or community boards, that in the past would require a good bit of googlefu to figure out.
Google became absolutely useless for that task. LLMs saved internet search that isnt shallow.
Yeah, in the end it depends on the use case. Some things are a simple search away, others need compiling of information (manually or with the help of an LLM).
LLMs have saved internet searching. For the first time in years, i am getting (usually) relevant information for my questions.
lol well that explains some things…
My AOL keywords don’t work anymore!
Old google? I miss av.com (AltaVista)
I miss veronica
Alta Vista and a Netscape browser
Hey bro reminder to talk to your doctor about colon health
Ouch. Let me get my walker and shuffle off to the computer room. I have some new tapes for my C64.
Senator, what are you doing here?
not a turtle
so they can charge even more for advertising that wont really generate sales than if you would have lowered the price from the start. btw google charges 15-30% of a product while producing nothing of that value.
businesses are truly dumb paying for ads hope they go bankrupt using ai ads.
Being dumb is the whole point of business (buying and selling)
Same list of links?
Since when?
It used to give you what it thought was the most relevant based on the terms placed in the search field. It was excellent.
Now it gives you: AI, youtube, sponsored links, ad links, shopping links, SEO garbage, social media links, and out of all of these there’s a good chunk that have only tangential relevance to your search at best, and then MAYBE you might get a link to a site that presents the information you seek.
Sometimes google search returns nothing at all.
Same list of garbage.
I know its love it or hate it but i use Kagi. Closest thing to old Google i’ve found. I haven’t tried their AI stuff though.
I do sometimes use the AI feature where you opt in to the AI overview. I’ve found that though the AI behind it is rather basic (same with the chat), its still decent when you want a quick answer instead of SEO slop (at least when you dont care for perfect accuracy).
Try an AI prompt like: Give me a 2006 style Google search result of the modern web for the search “Apple Pie Recipe”
They can still do it, if you ask.
Hah, I can’t blieve I’d have to use AI to get rid of AI results.
“computah, make it like it used to be”
I haven’t tried this one, but “reformat my Facebook content to look like Myspace” would be hillarious.
I don’t know if the Internet as a whole is dead, but search definitely is. Even DuckDuckGo requires me to jump through hoops just to get it to show results that contain ALL of the words in my search string, not just ONE of them. Seriously, if you can’t find any matching results just tell me that!
Google-fu is now duckduck-fu. Honestly I still feel DDG now is still not in par with google circa 2015-2020*
*I’m pulling this out if my ass; I already don’t remember when’s the last time google search is good. Please send help :(
Kagi, all day every day.
Yes it’s a paid service, but that means that their customers aren’t businesses buying ads and user data. You aren’t the product, you’re the customer, so Kagi focuses on providing what you want.
Don’t want AI? Just turn it off and you’ll never see it again.
I just wish I could buy it without AI.
The fact that AI is there means part of my money is going to paying for that, even if I’m not using it.
It’s both helping AI and hurting my wallet by existing in the first place.
Worth every penny.
Many times that AI summary is just something that is in the first two or three links anyway
That is, randomly mixed up statements from a few different Reddit threads completed with hallucinated info and delivered with total confidence. Perfect, if you don’t need correct information, just some text.
However, if you need information, now you either scroll through the summary and start glancing through the top results, or you start reading the summary, hover over the “sources “, guess which one may the statement actually come from, read it, and check it the source seems valid and the summary is accurate.
I’d argue that the summary is a net negative under both scenarios. It would be great to get quicker answers, if you could trust it, but because you can’t, it’s not.
The most-visited site on the internet still shows the same list of links to users
Are you motherfucking kidding me with that? Is this some kind of satire?
Shortly after the change I even noticed that some of the sites used to make/hallucinate the AI summaries weren’t even on the first 3 pages of links aggregated. They existed ONLY inside the tiny icons on the bottom right of the overview/hallucination where it was being cited.
That too, but Google’s search results have been horrifically terrible for years.
If you can figure out how to deny google the right to script on your browser, AI Overviews will disappear.
If you include a swear word in the search you won’t get an Ai overview.
If you can figure out how to use different search engine, that may also help.
Users who were quoted in the article:
- Sionn Achog, retired teacher 76, Dublin
- Peter Warb, 75, UK
- Jose Garcia Jr, 40, recovery coach, Dallas, Texas
- Alan Caruana, consultant, 62, Malta
- Eleazar Eke, electrical engineer, 67, Onitsha, Nigeria
- Catherine Weber, former political analyst, 57, Oregon
- Mark Johnson, 52, software engineer, London
- Samuel Lieberstein, 90, retired teacher, Cherry Hill, New Jersey
- Sean Peters, document processor, 41, Portland, Oregon
According to Wikipedia, the CIA’s median age statistics for 2024 for each of the countries that had a respondent:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age
- Ireland: 40.2
- United Kingdom: 40.8
- United States: 38.9
- Malta: 43.5
- Nigeria: 19.3
The respondents seem awfully non-representative of the larger population, considerably older. There isn’t a single person who was below the median age for their country, and many who were far above.
Don’t they have to be old to have used “Old Google”? It’s about 30 years old, seems appropriate that the users of old Google would be 40s at minimum, yeah?
No?
I’m younger than those people and I still remember using Open Directory, HotBot, MetaSearch, AltaVista and the rest.
For that matter, I remember the Internet before the World Wide Web when we used WAIS, Archie, Veronica and Jughead to search FTP and Gopher sites.
“Old Google” to me ended around the time they merged with Double Click. It’s got significantly worse three times since then.
How old were you in 1994 that you think you’re younger than this demographic and still had meaningfully used the gopher protocol?
Depends how young you were when you first touched a computer with internet access. I had a computer in 1995 but internet didn’t really get into house holds until a few years later with AOL disks. Some one mid 30s is probably the cut off. It really depended where you lived and your economic status. Computers were expensive and people didn’t really have ordinary uses for them yet.
The NoGoogleAi firefox extension solves this.
Search, and the web in general, are still horribly broken IMO. This makes the results crap in many cases. The SEO game was round one. Round two were all the different sites that were scraping each other and posting the same information with different formatting. Today the top results are all basically just slop on plausible sounding domain names that were registered within the past year or two.
Don’t even need an extension, just correct your search:
Oh yes, I remember. I remember that Google started to become worse and worse starting around 2018. By 2020, SEO was too damned good and ruined so much of the results. By 2024, trying to find technical info became so difficult I’d end up searching with DDG which was sometimes better.
All this was before AI slop existed.
Don’t blame AI. Blame SEO by commercial interests. They’ve been generating slop since the early 2000s. AI just makes them faster at it.
SEO is not the problem, the problem is that it’s not balanced with opposing interest.
I’ll explain: there’s no mechanism to reward fighting it, and there’s no mechanism to reward providing computing resources to some ideal public search engine, sort of modern take at Archie, that would allow complex queries, would be federated and wouldn’t rate results by some obscure metric.
I mean that if, suppose, some sort of (for public indexes) a mechanism similar to garbage collection in programming existed for search engines, where the referenced objects to be preserved would be those taken from some modern alternative of trusted web rings and directories, and the rest would be discarded as it should, you could have a usable search engine with no obscure metrics.
The problems here are - 1) web rings and directories were not a technical concept, but a social one, a kind of webpages, 2) trust was also social, 3) you need to reward people making these, these can only be made by people.
Which is where I want to say that maybe cryptobros were much better than AI bros, since they have produced some means to make that.
Good rings and directories can be rewarded by cryptocurrency payments. Their consistency can be tracked via blockchains, that’s one of the good uses, I think. And the same thing with trust.
Then the actual content of indexes might be shared via some Kademlia-like network.
In short, you need ability to pay for good things made by people, which was a problem in the golden age of the Web, and you need to make search engines not the enemy of web rings and directories, but something working on top of them.
There’s a lot of misguided enthusiasm over taking people out of the loop and somehow making a system that will purely automatically find what we need, there’s no such thing. Web rings and directories were how it should be done. There just should have been a different model of layers in that whole “Web” thing. Rings and directories being technical objects and not a kind of webpages, tying together pages and groups of pages, and indexers walking over those of them someone wants to track in a standard way. It just should be structured. Probably links (references) should also be a separate object, containing versions of two pages, the source and the target, position inside them and some display information. Not a link inside the page object.
OK, I’m thinking about this again, what the hell.
There’s a lot of misguided enthusiasm over taking people out of the loop and somehow making a system that will purely automatically find what we need, there’s no such thing. Web rings and directories were how it should be done.
That’s fine for interests and hobbies, but if I’m looking for a specific bit of information am I supposed to go diving through a Web ring in hopes I strike it lucky?
https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/
not quite, by 2020 the part of Google that cared about the quality of the results fully lost to those who only care about maximizing ad revenue
so they made it worse on purpose to get you to search more, and set the stage for the SEO abuse takeover
SEO is s crime against humanity and the people who pushed it should be punished
The unbounded profit motive, or more simply greed, ruins everything. This happens across time, continents, cultures, everything. It’s human nature, or at least common enough that we’ve never been able to do anything more than slow it down temporarily.
Saw a video once of one of the slop generators (not the type of person you would expect too!) Being very angry about the 2010s “summaries” that google would give you. Wish I could find the video again.
noai.duckduckgo.com, for at least one alternative.
CoMaps or Openstreetmaps instead of Google Maps.
ProtonMail/ProtonDrive instead of gmail, gdrive.
There are lots of alternatives, we just need to use them and tell others to use them as well.
Tutamail.
Protonmail announced their intention to gargle MAGA balls some months back…
I use that too but it doesn’t feel like it helps much anymore. Or it does help and search without it would be absolute hell.
You still get many links to weird webpages with tons and tons of fluff text without any real information important to you.
I do some origami here and there and use the search often to see if I can find a page with diagrams I don’t yet know about. There’s AI generated pages waffling on about origami diagrams with no actual diagrams shown. It is so sad to see.
In the past when I tried different engines, I’d eventually get frustrated with a specific queery and resort to google to get what I needed
Lately, if duck duck fails me, if I bother trying google then the results are even worse. It feels like the end of an era
DDG with limiting results to before 2020 helps even more. As long as the things you’re looking for existed before LLMs
I wonder if we’re going to come full circle back to list servers and manually curated content. That doesn’t solve search though. It’s also very difficult to reliable detect an AI vs an actual human.
The antidote is in the poison. We’re going to have to start self-hosting smaller, local LLMs specifically tailored to searching the web to find what you’re looking for (and providing links instead of summaries), while ignoring all the garbage.
If it can check thousands or millions of pages in a few seconds, it can find stuff buried so deep under all the slop that we would never find it manually.
Even if you’re not ready to accept this yet, at least download a copy of a model or two from huggingface before nvidia locks it down. 7-14B parameters is probably okay if you don’t have much space/memory.
Eventually we can use codeberg or ipfs to redistribute what we salvage as a collective. If everyone mirrors a few different models we’ll be in much better shape later down the road when big tech companies start approaching their endgame (full user-lock and ecosystem control expanding into the internet itself)
I dread having to find answers on random pages now. Its this weird discomfort of not knowing if I’ve gotten dumber and don’t understand stuff I should be able to, or if it just doesn’t make sense. Its so much work to figure out, and im just not sure which at any given time anymore.
Duckduckgo’s search results are the internet equivalent of hotdog water.
DuckDuckGo is AI opt-out, and for me that’s a non-starter.
I’ve personally found Kagi the best search alternative.
Kagi is fantastic. Highly recommended.
Being a paid service is a feature, not a downside to me. Even their AI implication, opt-in of course, is reasonable.
