I changed the title from “Spying” to “Eavesdropping” because the article actually directly supports that it is “spying” on you, just not listening.
Article littered with affiliate links.
And it also doesn’t make sense.
Which part didn’t make sense?
Anecdote: (a little background) I don’t typically deal with narcissistic people; I’m not troubled by narcissists in my life. My tech life is pretty well locked down, but it could always be better (working on it). And my YouTube suggestions are tightly, carefully curated to topics pertinent to my professional and personal projects.
I had an utter piece of shit contractor working for me on a project; he was a grifting, conniving, manipulative shitbag. When I outright fired his ass, he first got all self-righteous then tried to play the victim, but I wasn’t playing any of his games. My phone was sitting on the workbench next to me.
The next day, I opened YouTube because an engineer I know told me he dropped a new video on software we recently discussed. There among my suggestions were a bunch of videos on how to deal with narcissists. So somehow, in only talking with the contractor (he doesn’t use email, text, or other electronic communications), YouTube decided I was curious about dealing with narcissism. I’m morbidly curious how YouTube made that decision, and whether it was audio or “we know you’re associating with this guy who we identify as a problematic narcissist and here are some resources.”
Now, I’m just some douchecanoe on the internet and you should probably dismiss me based on that alone. But GODDAMN, the data points sure do pile up quickly on how deeply we’re being surveilled.
This can be as “simple” as your phones being in close proximity to each other for an extended period, and sharing device advertising IDs/other device data via WiFi, Bluetooth. Might be more to it, but it’s a likely factor.
Devices do this regularly btw, smartphones also scrape for WiFi networks to better geolocate etc.
It sounds like this guy doesn’t have a smartphone though
Correct. I can definitively say “I don’t know how this happened.” But I do know it creeps me out and spurs me to speed up my privacy efforts.
@Marty_Man_X@lemmy.world and @TORFdot0@lemmy.world both make great points, both of which can certainly explain the sudden change in suggestions.
Doesn’t have to
Ime even if it’s just a brick for being able to call, or his car is from the last 15 years: they ping cell towers and that can be enough
Not to counter your anecdote with my own. But I have been getting a lot of email spam pushing books and workshops dealing with narcissistic or toxic employees and I don’t even manage anyone so it may just be that firing toxic people is hot right now as far as workplace issues and any trend has people trying to make a buck off it
Imagine all the times you’ve had a conversation with somebody where you didn’t identify a pattern match with your YouTube recommendations.
Article warns that you will be profiled based on interests.
Article then profiles you based on interests. Proceeds to sell you VPN subscriptions.
I am not downplaying the phone spying on me, I imagine it is.
But ads are the least of my concerns. I see less ads now than at any other time in my life.
So how do I know if it is happening to me?
I believe this is how you know:
Cogito, ergo sum res venalis
- René Descartes
Tap for spoiler
Translation for ease
I think, therefore I am a product to be sold
I stopped reading when it started suggesting VPNs. Your’re far more likely to be profiled by a VPN provider than your ISP.
Privacy is not a product you can purchase.
I live in a country where our ISPs are required by law to keep a record of our internet metadata. When VPNs have been subpoenaed in the past ths answer has often been “we don’t keep that data”.
So in that case we’re looking at a likelihood of 1 vs less than 1. So you’re wrong there.
Plus, I would love to hear your source on these probabilities you proclaim. Can you share how you know this?
You said “far more likely”, so one assumes you have the numbers.
There are definitely some VPN providers to worry about.
VPNs are a security tool but they don’t protect people as much as they think. They hide DNS traffic your ISP would have received, so that your ISP can’t tell everyone which cuckold or affair site you access (except you probably forgot to turn the VPN on one time or another so…)
Your ISP can still see IP addresses you connect to, they forward all your traffic[I need to proof read before I press post - this is just misinformation]. Good opsec is a nightmare. Ad blocking does more for less cost than getting a VPN will ever do (except for certain human rights circumstances but I’d wager they’re actually going to be careful).My personal tip is use DNS over HTTPS/TLS where possible, and don’t use Cloudflare or Google. Add an ad blocker and it’s far easier to setup and way more cost effective than VPN.
Using a VPN will prevent your ISP from selling your IP logs to data brokers. It also obfuscates your IP to websites you visit to make their fingerprinting less precise. All your ISP can see is that you’re connecting to/from a VPN server through an encrypted tunnel and maybe some metadata like amount of data transferred.
Hard to compare value to free stuff like encrypted DNS and an ad blocker but a VPN definitely has protections you wouldn’t get otherwise.
Your ISP can still see IP addresses you connect to, they forward all your traffic.
No they can’t. The ISP cannot see any traffic that goes to or from you while you are connected to the VPN, only that you are sending encrypted packets to/from the IP of the VPN itself. It’s the VPN that then sends your requests on to the site you want to see, and routes the reply from the site back to you.
DNS requests are a separate attack vector, but VPNs almost all offer a means of protecting those from scrutiny as well, and as you say, DNS over https/TLS is also resistant to snooping.
There are some more esoteric ways of spying on your traffic, but the likelihood of any of it being used against you is remote unless you are on the shitlist of a major corporation or government.
Ad blocking does more for less cost than getting a VPN will ever do
Ad blocking mitigates a different risk, which is that trackers on pages you visit will report your behavior to aggregators who sell that data. By all means, use an adblocker. Maybe two. But also be aware that some adblockers sell your data to advertisers (e.g., Adblock Plus: Ublock Origin appears to be less problematic). Or, if you’re a bit more technical, you can set up your network so that known data-collection output isn’t sent. There are even lists of known snoopware endpoints you can subscribe to so you can more easily block them. But the ingenuity of the data collectors is extreme, and it’s a continuing struggle.
Another potential source of leakage is your browser fingerprint (there are sites that’ll tell you how unique your profile is-- the answer is generally “enough to identify you.” There are extensions that can conceal that too.
Yep sorry, I said a dumb thing.
My point is probably more to do with the marketing around VPNs than anything else. As you very nicely put, there are a thousand ways to track someone without having their IP address. VPNs don’t cover all bases but the marketing teams talk about them like they do.
Amazon can still sell your info to data brokers without having your home ip address: they have your email, name, delivery address and search history as a start.
You said “far more likely” and it turns out you don’t have the numbers and you were just making that up? Wow, I never could’ve predicted that.
I am not OP, I just decided to reply.
So this article is suspect. It says that we’re not being recorded so some distance advertiser can run ads, yet Alphonso was caught doing just that.
Do better “journalists”
Alphonso is listening for TV sound signatures, which while definitely intrusive and privacy invading, is not the same as 24/7 listening for voice-to-text-to-ad purposes.
They would only need to listen for a second or so to determine what channel you are on, instead of all the time, so there is a massive difference in scope.
They are effectively shazaming your TV.
Still creepy and invasive, but not 24/7 recording invasive.
they are both wrong. one is just as bad
Unless you are aware of further developments than I am, Alphonso required permissions and provided a consent dialog so it could not be considered spying or eavesdropping.
no, its built into other apps. doesnt ask for anything then, the other apps do, Alphonso just listens in those apps
Your phone is showing you ads?
I don’t see ads anywhere anymore. I have ublock origin on my phone and PC browsers, I use alternative apps like Grayjay instead of the official YouTube app, and if I can’t block ads on some platform, I just don’t use it.
I understand giving in to ads on some apps if the platform really matters and there’s not an alternative, but why not use ublock origin for the rest? Is it still not well known that you can block ads?
I block ads both on DNS blocklists and browser plugin level. Vanadium unfortunately doesn’t have uBlock origin so I’ll have to improvise something when I start using GrapheneOS on mobile – I don’t get out much.
Tangentially related to the article: To get an idea of how this data helps aggregators, ask ChatGPT to develop a complete psychological profile of yourself.
My usage history consists of requests for basic programming questions, help wording certainty things, scripts, reviewing documentation (eg organization policy), and a couple things goofing off (eg put my cat in a tuxedo). Just based on the types of questions I’m asking, and how I ask questions, and how I redirect it’s output via follow up questions, it was able to put together a profile that was surprisingly accurate.
It had a few things wrong, notably related to how organized or self disciplined I am. But if it had my calendar, by browser history, my biometric data (eg watch info), my location, it would easily be able to fill in the gaps. If the system only existed to help me, it would be tremendously valuable. But since the owners of this tech are all adversaries I am terrified for the future. The idea of the US federal government using it to profile citizens is too much to contemplate.
Rethink DNS is a better solution than the DuckDuckGo vpn they mentioned
