I’m sure we’re all geniuses here, but just in case…
Please excuse my dear aunt Sally.
Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction.
Why? Because a bunch of dead Greeks say so!
3x3-3÷3+3
(3x3)-(3÷3)+3
9-1+3
8+3
11
I guess remembering grade school order of operation means you’re a guinus now? Bar has gotten pretty low…
And it will go even lower as people start relying mpre on AI…
G U I N U S.
I know it’s probably a typo, but I’m enjoying it.
I would like to say it was on purpose but it was not :( I might do math, spelling is not my forte.
It’s jeenyus you moran!
All I can envision with that alternative is Whoopi Goldberg with a very fanciful hat serving drinks in space.
Not a genius. But if subtraction is last, why isn’t it 9-4?
Because its not really “1 plus 3”, its negative 1 plus 3 which is two. I know it seems a little weird but the minus sign is " tied" to the thing following it.
Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction.
should actually be
Parenthesis, exponents, (multiplication and division), (addition and subtraction).
Addition and subtraction are given the same priority, and are done in the same step, from left to right.
It’s not a great system of notation, it could be made far clearer (and parenthesis allow you to make it as clear as you like), but it’s essentially the universal standard now and it’s what we’re stuck with.
No, it should simply be “Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, addition.”
A division is defined as a multiplication, and a substraction is defined as an addition.
I am so confused everytime I see people arguing about this, as this is basic real number arithmetics that every kid in my country learns at 12 yo, when moving on from the simplified version you learn in elementary school.
You want PEMA with knowledge of what is defined, when people can’t even understand PEMDAS. You wish for too much.
I’m just confused as to how that is not common knowledge. The country I speak of is France, and we’re not exactly known for our excellent maths education.
Addition/subtraction work out the same regardless of how you order the operations. If you do subtraction last you start with the original:
9-1+3
and you are adding 3 to the result of (9-1). Since you are trying to perform it before the (9-1) operation is carried out, you can add 3 to the 9:
12-1 = 11
or you can add three to the -1 and get:
9+2 = 11
You only end up with 9-4 if you were subtracting 3 rather than adding three. It all becomes more obvious if you read the original as:
9 + (-1) + 3
It’s multiplication or division from left to right followed by addition or subtraction, also from left to right.
That’s where a lot of people fuck up.
The “why” goes a little further than that.
In actuality, it’s because of fundamental properties of operations
- Commutation
a + b = b + a
a×b = b×a
- Association
(a + b) + c = a + (b + c)
(a×b)×c = a×(b×c)
- Identity
a + 0 = a
a×1 = a
If you know that, then PEMDAS and such are useless because they’re derived from those properties but do not fully encompass them.
Eg.
3×2×(2+2) = 3×(4+4) = 12+12 = 24
This is a correct solution that is improper if you’re strictly adhering to PEMDAS rule as I’ve done multiplication before parenthesis from right to left.
I could even go completely out of order by doing 3×2×(2+2) = 2×(6+6) and it will still be correct
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Multiplication and Division, and Addition and Subtraction are executed at the same level and done in left to right order.
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Because it’s the only other thing about that system at all. OP wasn’t teaching, just showing what that system does. If you looked for a source that explains it you’d be told
Why? Because a bunch of dead Greeks say so!
The Greeks certainly didn’t come up with PEMDAS. US teachers too lazy to teach kids actual maths did. And that’s before taking into account that the Greeks didn’t come up with Algebra.
US teachers too lazy to teach kids actual maths did.
What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS? And what’s the non-lazy/superior way?
I’m a BEDMAS man myself
Learning the actual algebraic laws, instead of an order of operations to mechanically replicate. PEMDAS might get you through a standardised test but does not convey any understanding, it’s like knowing that you need to press a button to call the elevator but not understand what elevators are for.
Though “lazy teachers” might actually be a bit too charitable a take given the literacy rates of US college graduates mastering in English. US maths teachers very well might not understand basic maths themselves, thinking it’s all about a set of mechanical operations.
This guy is the the guy posting the answer and then spending hours fighting the idiots who got it wrong on Facebook.
Nerd.
x/0 is the set {+inf,-inf}, fite me IRL.
Is it also lazy to learn Roy G. Biv to know the color spectrum instead of learning all the physics and optical properties behind that?
Or what about My Very Elderly Mother Just Served Us Nine Pickles to know the planets instead of learning orbital dynamics and astrophysics?
Christ man, it’s a mnemonic device for elementary schoolers.
Those two things are memorisation tasks. Maths is not about memorisation.
You are not supposed to remember that the area of a triangle is
a * h / 2, you’re supposed to understand why it’s the case. You’re supposed to be able to show that any triangle that can possibly exist is half the area of the rectangle it’s stuck in: Start with the trivial case (right-angled triangle), then move on to more complicated cases. If you’ve understood that once, there is no reason to remember anything because you can derive the formula at a moment’s notice.All maths can be understood and derived like that. The names of the colours, their ordering, the names of the planets and how they’re ordered, they’re arbitrary, they have no rhyme or reason, they need to be memorised if you want to recall them. Maths doesn’t, instead it dies when you apply memorisation.
Ein Anfänger (der) Gitarre Hat Elan. There, that’s the Guitar strings in German. Why do I know that? Because my music theory knowledge sucks. I can’t apply it, music is all vibes to me but I still need a way to match the strings to what the tuner is displaying. You should never learn music theory from me, just as you shouldn’t learn maths from a teacher who can’t prove
a * h / 2, or thinks it’s unimportant whether you can prove it.What fundamental property of the universe says that
6 + 4 / 2 is 8 instead of 5?
Nothing. And that’s why people don’t write equations like that: You either see
4 6 + --- 2or
6 + 4 ------- 2If you wrote
6 + 4 / 2in a paper you’d get reviewers complaining that it’s ambiguous, if you want it to be on one line write(6+4) / 2or6 + (4/2)or6 + ⁴⁄₂or even½(6 + 4)Working mathematicians never came up with PEMDAS, which disambiguates it without parenthesis, US teachers did. Noone else does it that way because it does not, in the slightest, aid readability.
You might be smart, but you’re still wrong about the importance of order of operations; especially in algebra.
As far as teachers go, you’re being a dick by generalizing all (US) teachers are lazy and do not understand math.
Pro tip: opinions are like assholes; you too have one, and yes it too stinks.
Boomers and Xgens need to prove, that they remember basic school math in FB lmao.
Gen xers? Don’t irk them. They’re not noticing you right now.
Very independent, and cranky generation.
I’m more worried about the gratuitous comma and what it means for the state of education.
Nah, people can write things while being a bit drunk, you know. I’m speaking for a friend, not me, ofc.
Who, the people who never had calculators in their pockets growing up? No worries, we can do math better than you.
lmao
Knowing basic arithmetic does not mean you know Math, and the fact you so hung up about this trivial aspect says a lot about you. Additionally, you express yourself like a boomer.
Hung up lol
See what you want to see ignorant one. Funny af.
question: is there something more than the expression evaluating to 11?
"Hey, this is Presh Talwalkar.
Discussion of a brief history of this viral math problem, followed by explanations of common incorrect answers. Ultimately followed by brief discussion on the order of operations, concluding in a final example that equals 11
And that’s the answer. Thank you so much for making us one of the best communities on YouTube, where we solve the world’s problems, one video at a time."
Anyone on Facebook that attempts to answer this or engage within its comments has already failed the test.
Anyone on Facebook
that attempts to answer this or engage within its commentshas already failed the test.
This is the kind of post designed to invoke a reaction. Facebook’s and pretty much every other algorithm driven social media is designed to promote posts that have high interaction. So a post that invokes lots of negative reactions gets lots of promotion. Hence the downfall of modern society.
So order of operations is hard?
The issue normally with these “trick” questions is the ambiguous nature of that division sign (not so much a problem here) or people not knowing to just go left to right when all operators are of the same priority. A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication, when it actually has the same priority. Someone should have included some parenthesis in PEDMAS aka. PE(DM)(AS) 😄
The same priority operations can be done in any order without affecting the result, that’s why they can be same priority and don’t need an explicit order.
6 × 4 ÷ 2 × 3 ÷ 9 evaluates the same regardless of order. Can you provide a counter example?
So let’s try out some different prioritization systems.
Left to right:
(((6 * 4) / 2) * 3) / 9 ((24 / 2) * 3) / 9 (12 * 3) / 9 36 / 9 = 4Right to left:
6 * (4 / (2 * (3 / 9))) 6 * (4 / (2 * 0.333...)) 6 * (4 / 0.666...) 6 * 6 = 36Multiplication first:
(6 * 4) / (2 * 3) / 9 24 / 6 / 9Here the path divides again, we can do the left division or right division first.
Left first: (24 / 6) / 9 4 / 9 = 0.444... Right side first: 24 / (6 / 9) 24 / 0.666... = 36And finally division first:
6 * (4 / 2) * (3 / 9) 6 * 2 * 0.333... 12 * 0.333.. = 4It’s ambiguous which one of these is correct. Hence the best method we have for “correct” is left to right.
I stand corrected
Maybe I’m wrong but the way I explain it is until the ambiguity is removed by adding in extra information to make it more specific then all those answers are correct.
“I saw her duck”
Until the author gives me clarity then that sentence has multiple meanings. With math, it doesn’t click for people that the equation is incomplete. In an English sentence, ambiguity makes more sense and the common sense approach would be to clarify what the meaning is
100% with you. “Left to right” as far as I can tell only exists to make otherwise “unsolvable” problems a kind of official solution. I personally feel like it is a bodge, and I would rather the correct solution for such a problem to be undefined.
It’s ambiguous which one of these is correct. Hence the best method we have for “correct” is left to right.
The solution accepted anywhere but in the US school system range from “Bloody use parenthesis, then” over “Why is there more than one division in this formula why didn’t you re-arrange everything to be less confusing” to “50 Hertz, in base units, are 50s-1”.
More practically speaking: Ultimately, you’ll want to do algebra with these things. If you rely on “left to right” type of precedence rules re-arranging formulas becomes way harder because now you have to contend with that kind of implicit constraint. It makes everything harder for no reason whatsoever so no actual mathematician, or other people using maths in earnest, use that kind of notation.
I fully agree that if it comes down to “left to right” the problem really needs to be rewritten to be more clear. But I’ve just shown why that “rule” is a common part of these meme problems because it is so weird and quite esoteric.
Another common issue is thinking “parentheses go first” and then beginning by solving the operation beside them (mostly multiplication). The point being that what’s inside the parentheses goes first, not what’s beside them.
Yeah and I’m tired of pretending it’s not!
So if it’s not really an event
And it’s not really a math problem
What the hell is it??
Engagement bait
Entertainment.
The only thing that will remain on yt anyway after AI has taken over the content generation and we can trust no “creator” anymore.
This thread shows that a whole bunch of people need to start taking online education courses. Getting back your algebra skills, some science perhaps, communication, history, etc.
I don’t know where you can get a proper education for that after grade school, but I see Brilliant.org advertised a lot.
÷ could be a minus sign, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_sign?wprov=sfla1
