It wouldn’t be difficult to make Lenovo laptops more repairable. I’ve had two, and both required taking the whole thing apart to replace the keyboard, the part most likely to have problems. I hate that about them.
Conversely, I replaced the battery in a T740 last week for a client .
8 screws total, including keyboard, and battery (2, and not glued).
I wouldn’t give this one a 10/10, but 7-8/10, probably.
Nice to work with, captive screws all around the shell, so no lost screws, no bullshit “screws under rubber feet” like HP loves to do…
Only gripe is that the usb c is not on a daughterboard. Or power and ports for that matter.
Traditionally, the business class T-series thinkpads were always easy to take apart and replace parts. All of the used lenovo thinkpads I’ve ever owned had marked screw holes on the bottom for the keyboard, which would let me slide it out without having to remove the case or anything.
The consumer Lenovos that weren’t based on the older IBM thinkpad designs were more standard designs like you describe.
Is there a version that doesn’t have the AI cuntery baked into it?
What is this about? Ai down to the bios? Confused at this
Noice. Would also be wonderful if they stopped pouring a shit ton of that nasty black underfill under the bga chips and used some regular red/clear compound around the corners instead like literally everyone else.
Return of socketed mobile CPUs when?
Won’t laptop manufacturers need to get CPU manufacturers to produce socketed mobile CPUs again?
I don’t think that would be very profitable. Spending lots of money negotiating with the CPU company just for a very small fraction of customers.
Should most electronics come with no servicability at all, because most customers are not gorillas breaking products for no good reason?
The road to enshittification is paved with people telling you to just use the popular thing everyone else, calling removable media “e-waste”, or even suggesting you to just buy a pair of Raycons if you don’t want to pay for electrostatic headphones and an audiophile external DAC.
Yes please.
Yes, but if you are running Windows on them, do they still inject Chinese state-sponsored malware into Windows on every boot from UEFI/BIOS storage?
They were caught doing this on several occasions, to the point where Lenovo products are forbidden across significant swaths of the U.S. government and military.
Err… were they? I remember vulnerabilities and a ban from SOME of the US gov agencies, but not clear if it was because of spying concerns or because they wanted a US supplier.
They can’t be a 10, only framework gets a 10. Nothing compares.
How this hasn’t killed all serious interest is beyond me.
Goldfish memories by most muggles and normies.
Plus the latest shiny and feature FOMO.
And then you have procurement who are told to get the most at the least cost, allowing state-owned companies to undercut most competition. Without clearly-specified guidelines that exclude dangerous tech, most rank-and-file salarymen will be told by Dilbert bosses to order the hardware or look for a different job.
How would you recommend someone shop for a laptop? Any good guides?
Don’t listen to what the other guy is saying, it’s all bullshit. His vocabulary betrays this wonabe haxxor with bad ideas about everything and weird choices, and his suggestions are the same.
So, some of rakabis’ advice is pretty good. I’ll just say that if you’re wanting to get away from being locked into a computational ecosystem with an even worse support lifetime than windows devices, avoid buying a Mac. A 2018 MacBook stopped receiving 90% of updates in 2024.
Caveat that by saying that older MacBooks, i.e. pre Mac made chips, are usually pretty reasonably priced on the used market. If you’re willing to switch to Linux then there’s even really good support for the hardware, with basically every distro working on MacBooks with Intel chips out of the box. The only part of deploying Linux on my wife’s 2017 MB Air that was REALLY a headache was the webcam. There’s info on every step to get the drivers installed and everything working, it’s just not all in one place, and a little outdated.If you have the money and want simplicity, reliability, and interoperability, go for a Mac. Just clench your sphincter and maximize the RAM; min. 32Gb ought to be minimally appropriate for a 7-8yr lifespan of basic duties. And FFS, go for what your current data uses up ×2.5 or 1Tb, whichever is larger (vital performance reasons in that). Don’t get the smallest storage unless third-party upgrade options exist like for the Mac Mini M4. And remember: all RAM and a lot of storage is integrated these days, which is why you should always max it out; there is no upgrade path except wholesale replacement of the machine. CPU is largely immaterial unless you are doing truly heavy lifting like video editing or AI, so that can often be the lowest choice.
If you want freedom and truly unconstrained system, some form of Linux/BSD on a Framework system is the way to go. Or if a desktop, hand-assemble it yourself.
If you are going to stick with Windows, go for a business-class Dell. Trust me, it’ll be almost as $$$$ painful as a Mac, but these little f**kers are built to last. At least you can upgrade the RAM and on-board storage, although I honestly recommend not going under 32Gb for anything other than basic tasks. It’ll be a lot more zippy with 32Gb even if you spend the first week tearing all the AI and built-in spyware out of Windows.
Running a business class Dell on Debian. Fantastic machine.
Very few people, relatively speaking, have heard anything about this whatsoever. That’s how.
There’s this thing called uninstalling the factory OS and reinstalling with a clean image. If you go a step further you can even get rid of Windows altogether and install Linux.
How can you trust that there’s no rootkits being injected into your linux install?
How can you trust other laptop manufacturers aren’t doing the same if we’re going with unfounded assumptions?
Most Linux images offer checksums to verify integrity.
Track record and reputation
Source?
Trust me bro *tm
One example of many.
You must be new to tech to not remember this. Wasn’t all that long ago.
Not even remotely the same thing OP is claiming. It’s their own windows flavor version with auto start script. It’s bad but not that bad.
Read it again. It occurs even with a full system wipe and re-install from Microsoft-direct media, or even a full hard drive swap. It is wholly independent of what is on the hard drive, the only restriction being that it can only successfully run when injected into Windows.
My memory was fuzzy, but I think it wasn’t UEFI but apps/drivers, but j could be wrong
You are correct, however they were malicious in nature and loaded on every boot from the UEFI/BIOS. They required Windows and auto-terminated the install if they already existed.
I wonder if this will suit up the “they don’t make them like they used to” crowd.
Not until everyone starts doing it. This used to be the norm.
Well they dont lol, they are super flimsy these days and most stuff is soldered on. Its good if this turns out to be the start of the return to good thinkpads, but i wouldnt get my hopes up yet.
What exactly is soldered on that shouldn’t be? If you want a processor that’s user replaceable, you should just get a PC. If RAM SSD and the ports are user replaceable, that sounds pretty good to me.
Why should it be?
Have you ever carried a laptop on actual travel? Like sprinting across a train station to catch your connection? You’ll definitely learn to appreciate a smaller lighter laptop.
That’s what the T14s is for, no?
My first laptop was a briefcase. There is such a thing as a happy medium. You could design light laptops that have replaceable parts, but they don’t do that because that would give choice back to the consumer and most manufacturers whole business model is to have you discard your computer and buy a brand new one every few years.
And how is having a socketed processor going to help with that? Even in Framework laptop, you have to swap out the motherboard. And even then, a laptop will never be something that lasts for decades. Technology moves on.
And how is having a socketed processor going to help with that?
which “that”? Obviously, it would increase repairability and longevity. it wouldn’t help with sales if you meant that, actually it’s likely that it would decrease sales because of longevity.
And even then, a laptop will never be something that lasts for decades.
My T410 runs fine.
I’ve got two laptops, a personal one, and one from work. They’re both Lenovo laptops.
My personal laptop can be repaired, you can slip out the battery and replace it without even using a screw. There’s actually two batteries, one is internal and does require some screws to be removed but it’s not very difficult. Anyone who wants to can easily do that. The same goes for the fan and cooler, RAM, and SSD, network card, keyboard, screen, and trackpad. There’s probably a bunch of other things that can be easily replaced that I just haven’t looked into.
My work laptop is from 2022, so it’s about 4 years old now. It doesn’t have a second external battery. Opening it up is a bit tougher, and you can’t replace things as readily.
They have roughly the same dimensions, and weigh about as much. I don’t really see the added value to me as a consumer with this newer laptop.
No socketed CPU, soldered WiFi chip, no PCMCIA slot.
At least it seems like the clit is still there.no PCMCIA slot.
Alright, Gramps. Let’s get you back to bed.
Predictable. Here’s a related issue, see if you spot the pattern.
And how is having a PCMCIA slot going to help with that?
I allready hate it. Just from looking at the pictures. Give me full size lan, i dont wabt my thinkpad wipping while typing, just so its 0.2cm thinner
It says full size rj45?
wipping?
Like a table where one leg is longer than the other three.
That is not called “wipping”, that’s not even a word.
Maybe he meant whipping?
Then it would just be nonsense, and looking at their reply to other comments I doubt they ment whipping.
Whipping around is a regular idiom.
It means turning with suddenness.
“Wobbling”
Thank you!
The machine doens’t wobble because there’s an Ethernet plugged in. The flappy thing is just to maintain the curve. I dont think it even touches the table when plugged in.
I can’t speak to previous versions of the hinge port, but as a network engineer who is constantly using it I’ve had no complaints with the one from my 2024 model.
The complaint about the one I have on my work ZBook is that removing the cable is more fiddly
That’s nice you can replace the charging port without reflowing the motherboard now.
Our business stopped buying them completely after they fucked us around with the USBC port burnouts and didn’t acknowledge it, I know it’s not a huge amount but they will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales from us
So many laptops just wasted before they patched it
Ooh yes baby! As an early Framework adopter who’s repaired it already a few times, including a solder job on the board, I am happy to see it. I am getting increasingly angsty about where Framework would go in the future as its VCs crank up the profit knob. Having the biggest real manufacturer in the world introduce an alternative is fantastic. With that said, it also depends on Lenovo actually making parts direct-for-purchase available at decent prices. Without that, repairability serves just as marketing wank.
E: Is that a magnesium body plate?
Is that a magnesium body plate?
As is tradition for thinkpads.
I thought they went away from it for their latest gens.
Oh my. It seems you’re right.
Its nice to see the return of the classics!
No, they’ve always had some sort of magnesium reinforcement. Full blown roll cage? Yeah that went away around the T440 series. E or L series? They’ve always been cheaper. But there’s always been some magnesium reinforcement on the T series.
T460 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jrMAAOSwOwdkVWl8/s-l1200.jpg
T480 https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31Oj9fSCo-L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
T14 Gen 1 https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S59cb725ffd0043ccacb3e731f8409715c.jpg
Gen 3 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T14+Gen+3+Keyboard+Replacement/157530#s329289
Gen 5 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dn8AAOSwqT9mg1T-/s-l400.jpg
An advantage that Framework still has is their upgradeability.
Fact.
But to be honest, the strength of the body of the Framework is pretty weak. Drops and more pressure result in permanent bending. I’ve already replaced one bottom. So if one wants a physically durable machine that can be thrown around, upgradeability might be okay to give up.
Now if I can buy it cheaper empty without microslop spyware installed on it, that would be great
Nice. Well actually I know that they offer linux preinstall when I occasionally look at their sales on their regional site time to time. It’s good to see affirmation that they will continue to offer no winslop option.
I’ve only bought a laptop from lenovo directly once, and it was horribly overpriced. Don’t know it it changed in the last 15 years since I bought it though.
Edit: for clarification, I’m not still using that one, it died many years ago.
Well i didn’t have “Year of the Linux Laptop” on my 2026 bingo card! That’s awesome!!
Ripper job on Lenovo’s part; I’d give them flack for using LPCAMM2 instead of DDR but honestly, it is ultimately the better choice for laptops and it’s totally cool to see it instead of soldered RAM.
Ideally they’d bring back the old keyboard layout based on the T25, but that’s more or less nitpicking at this point.
My personal problem are the speakers; although ever since getting my hands on an M1 Pro MacBook I’m kinda spoiled in that regard.
I’d give them flack for using LPCAMM2
Why would you do that?
Because it’s a new-ish standard that few manufacturers use (I’m only aware of Dell and Lenovo using it) and thus, it could be harder and more expensive to replace them than normal DDR5 sticks (although those are expensive right now as well so eh).
But ultimately, they offer more benefits than drawbacks.
Yeah, but at the same time, it has WAY better performance than traditional SODIMMs. The primary technical reason laptops had RAM soldered for so long was because the transfer speed became problematic with that physical format under DDR5. LPDDR removes that bandwidth constraint, and maintains user serviceability.
The primary technical reason laptops had RAM soldered for so long was because
Profits.
technical reason
Technical != financial
It looks like the AMD model still comes with SO-DIMM. Was hoping for AMD + LPCAMM2 + repairability, but I guess you can’t have everything yet.
I was wondering what they meant when talking about the WiFi chip. Is it replaceable but just annoying to get to or is it soldered to the board? I thought typically WiFi chips tended to be one of the few replaceable parts.
It is soldered to the board
Lenovo also owns the Motorola phone brand, and they’re going to adopt/allow GrapheneOS. I think they know how to grab customers right now, and I honestly like it.
Motorola has been kinda crap for years now, not supporting their android phones with updates, etc.
Hopefully this is a new leaf for them.
Isn’t Lenovo that dodgy company that did the China stuff though? Hopefully they’ve been bought by someone else since then.
They’re usually also well supported on Linux, and even sell them with Ubuntu pre-installed. Generally not a terrible brand.
Is that a good idea for a non tech person* with no Linux experience who absolutely needs to send documents successfully to others the first time without delay or should I just wait until my degree is finished and I am less dependent on document interoperability and have fewer absolute deadlines?
- My level of technical knowledge is here: if a program or usb device isn’t functioning, I know to check the driver, but I always have to look up what the device manager is called. On the other hand, I am capable of looking things up and following simple instructions, which has to count for something.
Try with a VM first, or install on an external drive and boot from USB.
I got a Mac at work and I struggled for a long time to do many basic things. Any change can be a challenge and there’s a learning curve. Same moving to Linux
You’re exactly at the perfect level to start getting your feet wet without losing productive time (as long as you don’t go on a distro-hop frenzy 🤣).
Weirdly enough, you’re way ahead of 99% of the tech-using population worldwide.
your level of technical knowledge is so far beyond the average person’s that it’s insane. the idea of ‘my computer has a problem, i’m going to google what the popup says’ simply does not occur to so, so many people.
also- you can definitely make and send documents with linux, no problem. more popular distros (ubuntu, mint, fedora (which i recommend, but im biased)) are as intuitive and point-and-click for surface level use as Windows is, and most come pre-installed with an office suite.
If your computer has 4+ cores/threads and 8GB or more of ram, I’d set up a virtual machine to test it out.
Linux itself works just fine for anything, but it’s different. There’s a learning curve and you might find that the thing you need to do immediately has a different process than what you’re used to, or needs some setting up first. There’s also always formatting differences between word and libreoffice writer (same can be said for different versions of word), and some higher level excel things that aren’t easy or not possible in calc.
I think you’ll be OK but there will be a slightly learning curve since it is a different OS. As for documents make sure they work well with either LibreOffice or OnlyOffice, which should be available on other OSes. There are also always online office suites if needed.
If you have a spare flash drive, you can also test out Linux distros (flavors) before installing them in a live mode, like a demo.
Best of luck.
Depends. If you use Google docs or the browser version of Office 365 (or whatever it’s called now) you’ll be fine. If you want to use an offline document editor, you’ll need to be technical enough to understand the difference between file formats like doc, odf and pdf.
If you receive a doc file, edit it in LibreOffice and send it back, the recipient might complain that the layout has shifted slightly.
If you need to be absolutely sure the recipient gets the document layed out exactly as you created it and they don’t need to edit it, exporting to pdf is a good option.
If you need to send or receive Excel/spreadsheet files you might have a bad time, I think. Though interoperability there may have improved since the last time I tried that sort of thing.
Before switching to Linux, download the Windows/Mac version of LibreOffice or OnlyOffice and see if it suits your needs. If not, it should be possible to run Office 365 on Linux using Wine or Winboat. However, Wine might not work or require too much tinkering for the average noob. Winboat should be more foolproof, but will increase the startup time of the application because you’re running it inside a Windows VM.
You should be fine if it’s just messing with the usual document types but my understanding is universities use a lot of proprietary bullshit for homework and stuff these days that probably doesn’t play well with Linux. I would try setting up a virtual machine or a old PC if you have one first to dip your toes in the water
Installing something like Linux Mint or Ubuntu is fairly easy. The hardest part is probably creating the install media and that’s not particularly hard ei her.
If you don’t rely on specific software (like Adobe), using Linux is a good idea. I’d still advice not to mess with a computer you rely on and wait until you have sufficient time to troubleshoot something. Even if nothing goes wrong a new OS can still take a little getting used to.
You can try out most Linux software immediately on Windows, so you know what you’re in for. LibreOffice and GIMP work in Windows, but that isn’t really true the other way around with Office and Photoshop. Your mileage may vary when it comes to tolerating these alternatives.
It depends. If you get a Laptop that is specifically compatible with Linux (like a Lenovo) and use a “noobie Distro” (like I do (Linux Mint or Fedora, whichever looks nicer to you)) then you’re fine
If you use a Laptop which is not compatible, you’re going to have a very bad time
Your technical knowledge as described is unironically far beyond the average user so I’d say you’re probably good. Depends on what you want to do though. You can occasionally have problems if you need to do something specific or are married to software that doesn’t exist on Linux. Word processing is down pat. You won’t have the app version of Microsoft Office, but there are open source alternatives like LibreOffice that are compatible with Office file types. For formatting, you may have to download some Microsoft owned fonts since they’re technically proprietary and not bundled with Linux/your office suite. In browser, Microsoft 365 and Google Docs works no differently than normal.
As someone else mentioned, you can test almost any distro on a live USB. There is also this site where you can remote in and test the general look and feel for free. You won’t have an internet connection though:
Not gonna lie, Linux is a pretty big learning curve, but it’s worth it to get away from Apple and (especially) Microslop Winblows. It’s the only OS that respects the user.
Lol what I was using Linux when I was a kid. Other than learning how to use terminal commands and a package manager occasionally it’s hardly any different from other OSs
IMO switching to Linux as a new user is no harder than switching from Windows to Mac, which I think is something more people can identify with and aren’t afraid of, for the most part.
Couldn’t disagree more. Having to learn how to use the command line to complete basic tasks is a huge learning curve.
i think it heavily depends on the person’s use case. if someone is doing web browsing and maybe making a couple word documents, the learning curve is negligible. also, you dont need to use BASH to do most things, it’s 2026. most anything you can think of, you can do via GUI.
It doesn’t matter what the usecase is if the Wifi or speakers or camera don’t work. Or if all the icons and text are so small as to be nearly impossible to read.
what basic task have you run into that requires the command line? have you tried Mint? my 83 year old dad has been on mint for over a year with no complaints, and I don’t think he even knows how to open the terminal . . .
I’m just not interested in rehashing this conversation. Anyone who has used Linux already knows, even if they won’t admit it. Being dishonest about it isn’t helping anyone. I used Windows for 30 years and never touched any kind of CLI in that time. I did use it on MacOS but only for Homebrew because there’s no other GUI alternative.
Couldn’t disagree more. Having to learn how to use a Mac is a huge learning curve.
You’re as prepared as anyone ever is. Getting good with a search engine is the best preparation.
Also, if that fails? Most distros have a forum where you can ask for help and actually get it.
Document interoperability? LibreOffice works well, and you can save in all the same formats as MS Office and more.
The learning curve is mostly what the new tools and programs are called. But so much stuff actually works better over there in Linux land - VLC, Krita, Blender, Audacity, much more.
Try things in a Virtual Machine! If you really can’t give up some of your windows tools, you can try dual-booting, but Windows Update doesn’t always play nice with another OS on the machine.
I’m my family’s “computer guy” despite not being overly tech savvy, and I always tell them it’s just cause I can use google. Being good at something is literally just a matter of how quickly can you pick up on how something is done, and how well can you retain that for the future through whatever means work for you.
Also, don’t forget creating a bootable USB stick with the distros you think you’d like. Rufus or balena etcher should get you there, just figure out what distros you think you’d like to try out, as sometimes it can be easier to set those up than create a vm, plus you might be able to notice any obvious issues running natively.
who absolutely needs to send documents successfully to others
While the problem is Micro$lop intentionally not following their own document standard, i’d say wait until you finish your degree.
Generally speaking though, unless you ave very specific needs, you’ll most likely do fine with linux. You can try a liveUSB version: boot it of off a USB drive, test it, without installing (it’ll be slower though).
Didn’t they have some huge controversy for having spyware pre-installed or something like that a few years ago? Doesn’t take away from the direction they’re moving in now, though! Hopefully they continue to move in this more pro-consumer direction.
Yeah the Superfish incident. AFAIK they haven’t done anything sketchy since then and if you’re the type to just wipe everything and install your own distro anyway it shouldn’t really affect anything but still not a great look.
Ubuntu? Yeah. It’s pretty much the only distro I will recommend against using (the Ubuntu spins are usually fine though). They offer Fedora as well though.
I presume you are referring to the SuperFish scandal in 2015.
It’s Lenovo reading the room (well, which is unusual), rather than worrying about the consumer.
It’s still a big corpo and line must go up.
Nice to see this is turning out to be a net positive though.Isnt lenovo the company that used to make the rugged military laptops that actually had Chinese or foreign backdoors installed?
That’s fucking depressing and SO ironic…
So in order to get more spying machines onto US IT networks, their honey pot is “build a product that is pro consumer”, and it will sell like hotcakes in the IT community.
What a fucking timeline
The shitty aspect is their actually not bad hardware. They last forever and seem to be held in high regards in the tech community but it’s as if people forgot a decade later than their still owned by Chinese. Still banned for security reasons for military use even currently after 20 years. Now the military still supplies them just not for mission critical purposes but for personal devices not govt use.
Wild. Every tech person at some point shills for Lenovo and they do have great things. Just screams Trojan horse to me still. IMO
They were also the first OEM to support steam deck on their handheld (beside Valve).
Lenovo not dropping the ball on their thinkpad reputation but improving it. Very impressive
We’re so back
Literally. Repairability used to be expected.
The issue I had with my previous Lenovo Thinkpad wasn’t that it wasn’t repairable when it broke, it was. The issue was that the cost of just replacing the keyboard was prohibitively high. Higher than the cost of a new laptop. So it became e-waste.
In the early 2000s, my longest lasting laptop was an IBM T14. I replaced the battery twice and increased the memory. I retired it right before the pandemic. It lasted over 15 years.
I replaced it with another Lenovo T14. Great keyboards and comes with Fedora workstation or Ubuntu out of the box.
