CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I’m immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
Yes, they’re cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD’s own high end models are expensive too. They don’t sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.
Yes they are, but in this case you are just wrong. I guarantee you I’m not a tankie, but I think it’s pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.
All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let’s put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US (the discussion was about Europe), and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/07/29/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-world-except-china-in-ev-adoption/ 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.
European brands doing well. I don’t know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China’s greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don’t give a fuck about the climate, they’re just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Like always, it’s a great idea, right up until China jacks up the prices after they’ve driven out all the competition and common people can’t buy them anymore.
I think you may have glossed over the bit about jacking up prices. By then other countries be decades behind in development, not to mention competing with slave wages. There’s no way. If there was, they wouldn’t be doing it. CCP isn’t doing this for the environment, they expect payback.
Oh no, a country acts out of self-interest! A concept that is completely foreign to the West 😱
At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result. What are the coeffects of the US defending their self-interests? Rise in facism? Another genocide?
At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result.
It cannot be both. Either:
CCP is subsidizing EVs to “save the climate” and they will stay cheap and subsidized forever because the communist dictator is actually just a totally super nice guy who cares about the global climate.
CCP is subsidizing EVs to dominate the global market, after which prices will go sky high and economies around the world (including yours) will suffer, because they’ve driven out all of the competition.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and “everyone’s a tankie” for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I’m immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
Doesn’t the EU balance it out with tariffs?
Those cheap BYDs ain’t all that cheap here
Now if EU increased subsidies for domestic EV production, domestic solar panel production, etc… We could really have something great.
No.
Yes they are.
Truth there.
Hmm
Also my friend in the middle east was excited for the BYD Dolphin (I think) for its price and it was… Nearly twice as much here when I looked it up?
BYDs seem cheap because they make budget EVs. Mercedes, Audi, etc, do not.
No one is denying that the tariffs exist. I’m denying that it “balances out”. BYD is still way cheaper than comparable EVs.
Mercedes, Audi, etc. are established several decade old prestigious brands that don’t need rock bottom prices to gain market share.
BYDs don’t “seem” cheap. They are cheap.
Yes, they’re cheap because the competition is higher end vehicles. BYD’s own high end models are expensive too. They don’t sell the Han here because you could get EQE or i5 for that amount.
No they’re not. They’re cheap because they’re subsidized.
But they’re not cheap after the tariffs. Yes, cheaper than German luxury cars, but not cheaper than comparable cars.
Yes. They are. Significantly.
Yes they are, but in this case you are just wrong. I guarantee you I’m not a tankie, but I think it’s pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.
All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let’s put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US (the discussion was about Europe), and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
in 2024 in the west they were falling still. Europe stats are strong for all EVs. Should not be Tesla vs BYD. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/07/29/eu-overtakes-the-rest-of-the-world-except-china-in-ev-adoption/ 29% growth in first half of the year, and even higher in July. BEVs+Hybrids is almost 60% of sales. PHEV+BEV 24%, which is much higher than US, though behind China. Total car sales up, while ICE sales down.
European brands doing well. I don’t know the prices of every model, but they have to be providing value to be doing so well.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China’s greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don’t give a fuck about the climate, they’re just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Chinese carbon emissions may have peaked this year and they’ve deployed more renewables than the rest of the world combined.
That’s because they’re also heavily subsidizing that industry out of self-interest. That’s the “emerging markets” I mentioned above.
Which sounds like a good idea for everybody. Maybe other countries should do the same thing.
I’m no fan of West Taiwan but they’re doing a lot more to decarbonize than most other major economies.
Like always, it’s a great idea, right up until China jacks up the prices after they’ve driven out all the competition and common people can’t buy them anymore.
Then maybe western companies can finally compete with them despite being ruled by obligate capitalists.
I think you may have glossed over the bit about jacking up prices. By then other countries be decades behind in development, not to mention competing with slave wages. There’s no way. If there was, they wouldn’t be doing it. CCP isn’t doing this for the environment, they expect payback.
Oh no, a country acts out of self-interest! A concept that is completely foreign to the West 😱 At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result. What are the coeffects of the US defending their self-interests? Rise in facism? Another genocide?
You’re moving the goalposts. You were literally thanking Xi for “saving the climate”.
Once again, I am not having a pissing match about which country is better, I am discussing the success of electric vehicles from China.
Not really? Still saving the climate 🤔
It cannot be both. Either:
CCP is subsidizing EVs to “save the climate” and they will stay cheap and subsidized forever because the communist dictator is actually just a totally super nice guy who cares about the global climate.
CCP is subsidizing EVs to dominate the global market, after which prices will go sky high and economies around the world (including yours) will suffer, because they’ve driven out all of the competition.
Which one do you think it is?
Also it’s much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and “everyone’s a tankie” for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.