And, a recent tour of one of the Asian powerhouse’s vehicle plants has proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt, at least to Honda President and CEO Toshihiro Mibe.
“We have no chance against this,” Mibe said upon a visit to a Shanghai parts factory, commenting on its seamless automation across all levels of production. Logistics, procurement and all aspects of the process were so automated, in fact, that he did not spot a single human worker on the supplier’s floor.
Ford executives saying even three years ago that China was way ahead of the game
Toyota’s CEO has likewise said regarding not just his company, but the industry in general, “unless things change, we will not survive”
Lol. Lmao, even. Let them come
Oh no my portfolio… Seriously, there’s something called competition, it’s been around for a long time. If Chinese companies continue pushing ahead while US companies remain complacent then that’s just what will happen. These older car manufacturers have had DECADES to prepare for the newer battery tech to design and build good affordable BEVs, but they just didn’t.
This is what happens when billionaires try to steal the future. Read about the General Motors EV1. Oil companies have fought against the development of EV charging infrastructure in the US.
It’s not about EV vs ICE, it’s about automation in production, which really is important, if you like to talk about billionaires stealing the future, then from Marx to, eh, Norbert Wiener many people wrote that eventually heavy industries won’t need low qualification labor anymore, and where the society turns at that point is a political problem.
It’s those conceptually capital “means of production” right here. Or you can look at TSMC, though. Or Windows, or Linux, or Firefox. All capital things.
But yes, those who can’t make the transition are at a disadvantage. Unless the gap is reduced in some way, it’s political again.
Anyway, those unfit dying have been a thing for a long time.
Good these are companies that fought the transition to EVs every step of the way. Toyota in particular. Which was ironic after releasing the Prius
Toyota is way too conservative. After nailing hybrid tech early on, it seems like they wasted the opportunity to put it on every vehicle they make which would have been such an amazing step forward, instead of treating it as a weird niche for so long.
Also that bz4x or whatever deserves a spot on the worst cars of all time list, just straight up ewaste.
I never owned one so I can’t say this is true, but from what I read over the years, those early hybrids weren’t great for performance/driving feel compared to other vehicles. They worked, they were efficient, but at the time turning all their cars into it probably wasn’t a winning path.
Also that bz4x or whatever deserves a spot on the worst cars of all time list, just straight up ewaste.
What makes you say that? I don’t really know much about cars, why is that one particularly bad?
Compared to everything else on the market it had big problems with reliability, range, charging speed, and it was overpriced.
I think everyone expected that Toyota, with its hybrid experience and the benefits of seeing all other EVs on the market wouldn’t make such a poor attempt. It felt like they were poisoning the well, as if not wanting to compete in the EV space in the first place.
Yeah. Spot on. And the Busy Forks not only has an awful name, not only has awful styling, but it is an extraordinarily bad EV by any measure. E-waste indeed
Wait, I haven’t read up about it. What makes it so bad?
Well the wheels fall off, that’s not ideal. (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM)
Other than that it has poor battery size for the cost, slow charging, and poor efficiency (burns more kW per mile/km).
There are more criticisms, but they’re the big ones. It is just not a good EV.
And the wheels really did fall off initially, they had to do a recall. Was a design error.
Now recalls happen very often to all companies but for straight up safety issues they’re rare. They tend to be a lot smaller issues.
The thing with the wheels though is just indicative of how little care they took with it, Toyota are renowned for quality, sure they’re boring designs but they’re built to last right ? Well this one seems to be been designed by the work experience kid and a punishment detail who clearly didnt want to be on a BEV.
Oh, shoot, yeah, I do now remember about the wheel recall! You’re right; Toyota has fallen in quality. I’m now recalling Genesis overtaking them in JD Powers’ reliability ratings… I’ve gotta review this stuff more. So sad, but we really should never have brand loyalty.
You can just buy a JD Power award btw. The auto manufacturers pay to play. Its a marketing company.
How will you know its electric if it doesn’t look like shit otherwise?
Toyota is way too conservative.
Because unlike Tesla, they need to sell cars and make money.
I genuinely think there will be a few major auto manufacturers who don’t survive the EV transition. Either they will go bankrupt altogether, or be bought out by other, more competent manufacturers.
That’s exactly China’s goal. Put everyone else out of business and then leverage the hell out of their position as the only automaker left standing in the world like the Walmart or Amazon of cars.
Why would anyone want to buy out Stellantis? Or GM?
What is worth salvaging?
Stellantis in particular has some brands that deserve a decent vehicle to put their badge on.
Gm to a lesser extent.
That’s been going on for a while already. Stellantis was founded only a few years ago and they already have a ton of different brands in their pockets. Obviously PSA and FCA already had a ton of those brands before merging, but similar merges have been happening for decades, for example GM has been gathering different brands since 1920s.
This is the very same extreme capitalism that they have enjoyed, engineered, abused. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Or, rapidly change expectations for what they charge. They cannot have it both ways
MFW the communists beat the capitalists at their own game
To be fair, China isn’t very good at communism and the US isn’t very good at capitalism.
China has way too many billionaires. And the US isn’t a well regulated, free market.
Good morning. You old style car companies (and it is not just the US ones, count the European companies in, too) slept through the last decades. They tried everything in the book to supress EVs, and still keep developing fossil fuel cars to be released in ten years.
And now they start to wake up, seeing that the world moved onwithout them, and they cry.
I work in a USA manufacturing plant that has nine figures worth of EV motor manufacturing lines cancelled, sitting around collecting dust since the new administration changed all the regulations and incentives.
and people didn’t buy them. did everyone buy a Bolt or Leaf last year???
Ford sold 823,000 F150s JUST LAST YEAR. Then the ponytail and birkenstock crowd blames the companies.
No, no. Build big beautiful F150, Tundras and other mastodonts running on dinosaur fuel. Fail to adapt, fail to exist.
Aww man, China is dumping to gain market share for EVs? That’s crazy. If only car manufacturers had adapted to EVs sooner and researched more into better battery technologies, they might not be in this position. Get fucked. This whole, every car has to be super luxorious in America is getting ridiculous. I looked at a rav4 last year and the “features” they included in the base model was mental. I just want my car to go when I press the pedal. Brake. And a CD Player. I don’t need half the shit they put in American market cars. Doesn’t help that I have a large family that needs to travel far, frequently. So, my hands are tied with getting an SUV. I’d kill for a better train transit in America. Next car gets to be an EV though. Cause that’s the sedan.
Source on China “dumping”? All I see are unsupported accusations that are wholly explainable by the power the lobby of the automotive industry has
Source on China “dumping”?
Illegal Storage at Jamberoo: BYD was caught storing more than 1,600 vehicles at Jamberoo Action Park without the necessary council approvals. The storage facility was discovered as the water park attempted to reopen for the summer season while its car parks remained filled with new EVs.
Inventory vs. Sales Gap: As of late 2025, BYD had reportedly imported approximately 51,000 cars to Australia but had sold only about 38,000 units, leaving a significant surplus of inventory.
Carbon Credit Strategy: Some analysts believe the stockpiling is linked to a government loophole that allows manufacturers to accumulate carbon credits based on the number of electric vehicles imported, rather than just those sold.
The plan was China was going to sell cars like legacy auto has been doing for the past 120 years. USA said no. USA created China’s over capacity. Not China.
I will fully admit my only data is anectodal evidence from friends overseas.
Edit: I’ll also add, I distinctly remember reading abouy China selling zero mileage used EVs. Which lines up with dumping practices.
That one was less dumping and more subsidies fraud, IIRC
In my area last year I was legitimately looking at all options. Toyota lot was the biggest disappointment. They had 1 RAV4 that was completely stripped, cloth seats, barely any features etc. but somehow the payments were still $150 more per month than leases on better equipped EVs at that point (prior to the federal tax credit expiration). I asked the Toyota guy if he had any other competitive options and he tried to tell me I should get a massive truck (Tundra).
The guy at my lot said, “you won’t be able to find what you’re looking for; cause even if we stripped everything out, it would still be the MSRP base price.” And I was just floored by that. I walked off the lot, went home and got a PHEV from Mazda and ended up $2000 under asking; had to stay for hours though. Best I could do cause the only comparable cargo and seat size EV was a KIA EV7 (the suburban looking one). I wanted the Ioniq5, but a buddy of mine had a problem with his and Hyundai was terrible to him. Everything else in that size was just too expensive because all the EVs at that level have so many useless features.
It’s worse than that- the Toyota distributors in my area have a regional monopoly and add a non-negotiable $2000 worth of useless crap to every car for 500 miles.
$129 screen protector for the radio $80 for a bag of red USB cables $700 for “enhanced warranty protection” $1200 for nano-ceramic-ionic-polymeric paint and underbody coating
Wouldn’t they still be in the samw situation as China can afford to dump indefinitely?
They cannot dump indefinitely. That is impossible with current global circumstances. Also, if companies actually invested in EVs sooner, costs would be down already and China would have a harder time dumping. The biggest issue currently is, China can dump for longer than manufacturers can catch up. You reap what you sow, though.
They can. China has near limitless funds lol. It’s like the US with military spending except they’re doing a trade war rather than conventional war.
But they cannot sell them all. Eventually the well runs dry and they will have overstock and the wave will come to shore. The cracks in the foundation seem to be there. But I may be, and probably am, wrong. I studied engineering, not geopolitical based economics.
Car buyers usually buy a new one every 5 years at most while the rest of us buy used. They can keep going for long enough to put at least a few western companies out of business.
It could hit my portfolio? What portfolio?
I’m assuming they mean those with 401k’s or other managed retirement accounts.
I’ve been in the market for a decent Japanese EV for like 10 years now and still drive my 2004 toyota around. Sure China is dumping but Japan has been sleeping so hard it’s hard to have any sympathy here.
Nissan leaf is the way to go.
Nismo edition coming…
sadly not available in my region
From that I’ve very heard, Japan has been betting on hybrid and hydrogen fuel instead of full electric.
I’ve been heavily considering an electric recently and was surprised by the severe lack of japanese EVs.
So what you’re saying is you need Daddy Trump to bail you out with taxpayer dollars we don’t have so you can not change anything to make vehicles nobody can afford?
Daddy Joe Biden dumped billions into battery plants.
Are you comparing building up new tech and capabilities for the future to keeping outdated, stagnant industries on life support? I mean, even pushing for tiny nuclear reactors in cars would be less crazy than doubling down on tech that we know, for a fact, is killing our planet.
Maybe pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. You know, the whole “meritocracy” thing.
Simple affordable vehicles if they want to keep the factories busy and and sell a lot of vehicles. Greatly reduce the massive trucks and SUVs. I don’t know how many people need to tell them that before they finally listen.
