• Machiavelli2@lemmy.world
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    18 days ago

    The title is misleading.

    “Throughout this period, the system remained free of harmful by-products or sediment while achieving a 99.4 percent leak-proof efficiency. Even at high power outputs, it retained 78.5 percent of its energy efficiency, proving that the design is both reliable and durable.”

    99.4% leak proof against material transitioning within the membranes.

    78.5% energy output efficiency.

    And as others have said no useful metrics tbh.

  • asbestos@lemmy.world
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    18 days ago

    Why is there never a single relevant metric mentioned? Here its only cycles and efficiency (which I assume is capacity).

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      They are being made, CATL is already making solid state batteries that break with traditional Lithium batteries on both price and safety.
      Your comment is both ignorant and misleading.

      • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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        18 days ago

        Solid state too? I know they started mass producing sodium-ion which is a huge deal but hadn’t heard abt solid state lithium.

          • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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            18 days ago

            To be clear, I have a fair bit of confidence in CATL’s roadmap as they have delivered steadily over the years.

      • BillyClark@piefed.social
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        18 days ago

        Your comment is both ignorant and misleading.

        “Less talking. More X,” is a cliche that doesn’t imply that there is zero “X.”

        I think you’re fundamentally misunderstanding their comment and then attributing your mistake to them as if it’s their mistake.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          18 days ago

          Batteries is probably one of thew most researched technologies ATM. So asking for more research and less talking when the progress of actual research is publicized is just moronic idiotic, and everything else describing ignorance.

          • UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world
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            18 days ago

            The comment is satire. You get reports about amazing batteries about every month, yet most pretty much all of them never went into production. It has been like that for years, since I was a teenager at the very least. And what has happened since then was pretty much refinements to Li-Ion and the commercialization LiFePO.

              • [deleted]@piefed.world
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                18 days ago

                It usually is at least a decade. New modern technology and manufacturing processes take years to decades to get up to speed because of all the hiccups and surprises they find along the way.

          • BillyClark@piefed.social
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            18 days ago

            You called their comment “ignorant and misleading.” Do you actually stand behind those words?

            So asking for more research and less talking when the progress of actual research is publicized is just moronic idiotic, and everything else describing ignorance.

            They didn’t ask for “more research.” They were asking for more of these cheap and effective batteries to be available for them to purchase.

            • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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              18 days ago

              Less talk and more delivery is the same as increasing investments in research and production even more than they already are. To deliver even better batteries even faster requires more research. I was using the logical conclusion of what was said.
              So yes I absolutely 100% stand by my original comment, because there is absolutely a lot more than talking, when it’s the area that is probably seeing some of the heaviest research for more than 2 decades now. And there absolutely is delivering too.

              Of course we all want even better and cheaper batteries, it’s a braindead comment to make. I also wish there were more pink unicorns.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    18 days ago

    The battery prototype demonstrated endurance, maintaining a stable structure and perfect reversibility over 6,000 cycles — equivalent to more than 16 years of daily operation — with zero loss in storage capacity.

    WTF!? If this battery is just half as good as they claim, it could be a game changer for storing power for solar and wind!

    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      If all of the claims from Chinese tech companies and research was half as good as they claim we would all learn Mandarin by now.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        That is exactly right, and simplified Chinese is actually extremely popular yo learn here now. (Denmark)
        And no wonder, they have become leaders of several key (future) technologies.

        • CosmoNova@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          Counter point: I know exactly one person who learned Mandarin and several dozen who don‘t. Pretty much everyone learned english and (to a lesser degree) a third language that isn‘t Mandarin either. French, Spanish and Japanese are popular, though.

      • HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        18 days ago

        Have you heard of a man named Elon Musk? He’s the king of over promising. US company’s put out just as much garbage “look we solved X” as China dude.

    • blackbeans@lemmy.zip
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      18 days ago

      There’s always a catch, details matter.

      Some chemistries can only work if heated up to a certain temperature.
      Some cannot supply high currents. Some perform badly at lower temperatures. Some are expensive to produce. Some have a very low energy density per weight or volume. Some are hard to create consistently and require a lot of balancing. Some cannot be scaled up easily. Some are prone to aging regardless of cycles. Some even require manual maintenance.

      It’s hard to make a cell that does everything right. Cycle life is only one out of a huge list of parameters.

    • Jason2357@lemmy.ca
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      18 days ago

      Those are not the metrics that are important for storing wind and solar. Cost per MWh is the important one.

      It is great to see, and isn’t an unreasonable jump from lifepo4. They already do 4-6k charge cycles with something like 20% degradation. This is a bigger deal for electronics and vehicles as it would make battery replacements unnecessary.

      • Pelicanen@fedia.io
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        17 days ago

        But cycle life is a central parameter for the cost of a battery, the longer it lasts the more rarely you have to replace it. In the longer term, a battery that lasts twice as long can be practically half as expensive.

        • willington@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          17 days ago

          Assuming the manufacturing costs (materials + utilities + other fees + labor + profit extraction) for the two types of batteries are equal, yes.

    • gian @lemmy.grys.it
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      18 days ago

      The problem is that 6000 cycles in laboratory are not the same than 6000 cycles in real life scenarios.

      It would be interesting to put that battery out in the field and to see how it perform in real life conditions (assuming that they are cheap enough to be produced in large volumes)

      If they are really that good you are right, but there are always a lot of revolutionary advance in lab that never leave it.

          • Flagstaff@programming.dev
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            18 days ago

            There actually was a Chinese EV startup that had battery swap stations: drive up onto the system, and the battery is directly under your car; the swap takes <1 minute. I don’t remember what it was called, though, nor if it ever made it.

            • atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works
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              18 days ago

              Tesla did that as well about 10 years ago. They opted to not do it anymore if I recall correctly because they couldn’t control how the batteries were being maintained or what age of battery you would get.

          • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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            18 days ago

            When was hot-swapping batteries normal? What was the backup power source? I’d only ever seen normally swappable batteries where the phone would need to power off and back on.

            • vinnymac@lemmy.world
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              18 days ago

              I’ve never owned a flip phone that I couldn’t plug in and swap the battery with a new one without it turning off. If that wasn’t normal with your phones I’m not sure why, maybe different circuitry?

              Regardless making devices easy to repair, and thus open and maintainable was what I was getting at.

          • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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            16 days ago

            Just make hot swapping batteries normal again like it used to be.

            In your ideal scenario would you own multiple batteries and keep them at your house, or are you looking for a subscription service where you would just buy the car (batteryless?) and then go to a rental station to have one put in, swapping batteries when they need a charge?

          • inbn@lemmy.zip
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            18 days ago

            Gogoro a moped/scooter company in Taiwan has these. Little stations all over the country where you can swap your battery out, it was pretty amazing.

        • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          18 days ago

          Breaks from use makes perfect sense though, it allows the electrolyte to diffuse evenly. During charge /discharge cycles there’s always more or less active electrolyte being consumed/produced at the anodes and cathodes, resting means it can equalize.

          • Flagstaff@programming.dev
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            17 days ago

            Fascinating, I didn’t know that that’s the reason… Would you happen to have any data on how long this diffusion process takes?

            • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              17 days ago

              I mostly just applying my undergrad chemistry classes here to make an educated guess, nothing official…

              Reactions are limited by the quantity of reagents and the mixing rate. As reagents are consumed (or produced), fresh reagent must move towards (or away) from the active anode and cathode for the reaction to continue.

              In flooded liquid electrolyte batteries (like lead acid), mixing is very high and it’s surface area that affects charge/discharge performance. In absorbed mat chemistries like most modern lithium ions, surface area is very high but electrolyte is “trapped” next to its immediate cathode/anode and cannot easily migrate throughout the matrix.

              In lead acids this sort of diffusion is extremely fast. In packed lithium ions it is definitely slower. When diffusion is too slow, the lithium ions will form dendrites (little spikes) where a gradient of ions exist because they are being deposited onto the electrode faster than the electrolyte can move ions. Thats usually what kills batteries over time and why ultra fast charge/discharge cycles are terrible for them.

              • Flagstaff@programming.dev
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                16 days ago

                Dang, your education paid off! I recently disabled fast-charging on my phone (ironically before reading any of this), so am I doing good, dad?

      • stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca
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        18 days ago

        It really depends on the charge/discharge conditions that the particular test is using. You can do testing in the lab that is way harsher than typical usage or you can make it easier. In terms of this cycle testing for Li-ion I would say that typically the lab testing would be harsher than real world primarily because lab testing is done between 0% and 100% depth of discharge constantly where most people are charging their batteries much before then and only cycling them at high rates periodically.

    • satanmat@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      IF is doing quite a bit of heavy lifting there.

      And yes IF it is as you said HALF that good, in either direction— the article mentioned ~80% under heavy loads. And that alone would be a game changer.

      Energy storage is the “oil” of the future.

      IF — we shall see. But I’m hopeful