At this point I’m just like, yeah, that may just as well happen.

It’s a call to examine your assumptions.

Nope, it translated to me to “you don’t come from a background of resistance in your country, your opinions automatically don’t matter as much.”

What absolute position? I wrote a whole paragraph after the bit that you quote exactly on why it is not an absolute position.

Okay, I admit I didn’t pay enough attention to what you wrote. Probably because I don’t like being lectured about history.

But in that case, even better! They tried working on a two-state solution. It was shot down, but you gotta try again. And again. And again.

Everything Israel and the Palestinians are doing at the moment is the exact opposite. They create more violence, hatred, death, destruction and desire for vengeance, which in turn will be the fuel for more decades of war.

But that’s the point: if it is not just, it will not be enduring. I don’t understand what is confusing about “no justice no peace”.

Nothing about it is confusing, it is very clear. And it is an absolute position that will make this conflict go on forever. Why? Because in an asymmetric conflict like this, there will always be injustice.

You have to find a way to end this injustice with peaceful means. I refuse to accept that only violence can solve this. That’s all I am saying.

Partially incorrect, since the vast majority of Israelis clearly support the actions of their current government and army.

I actually agree with this and nothing I said is in contradiction with this fact. There are still some Israelis, albeit far too few, who want peace.

No justice? No peace. As simple as that.

And here’s another thought on this: It seems as if quite a lot of arab people (not only the Palestinians) view the mere existence of Israel as an injustice.

Logical conclusion? Obvious…

I know nothing about you but I wouldn’t be surprised if you come from a cultural background that doesn’t have a history of resistance and struggle for freedom.

Is this some kind of attempt to dispute my right to an opinion? Or an attempt to devalue it? I know nothing about you, but come on. I’m sure you can find better arguments for your positions than thinly veiled ad hominems.

Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas.

I acknowledged that when I said “If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.”.

The victims of genocide, apartheid, occupation do not have the same level of culpability as the perpetrators.

No, they don’t. There are many blameless Palestinians. And there are Israelis who voted for the current government, they surely carry more guilt in this war than Palestinian victims.

that they should just grow up and accept the fait accompli of the occupation and the defeat, well sorry but that says more about you

Firstly, I never said they have to accept it. If you think war is the only means of not accepting and trying to change it, it says a lot about you. Secondly, someone else in this comment section said: “what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just.”

No justice? No peace. As simple as that.

This is why this will never end.

So here’s a comment which will probably be downvoted to hell, but I can deal with that.

I’m almost 50 years old. Israel and Palestine (plus other surrounding countries) have never been at peace as long as I can think.

There’s always some asshole who thinks fighting a war is the better option. If an Israeli prime minister wants to make peace, they fucking shoot him. If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.

In the meantime, there are at least some people on both sides who wish for nothing more than peace. Yes, we can debate on which side has more of them and it’s damn certain there aren’t enough of them by far.

But can we maybe just stop taking a side? This conflict is not about Israel or Palestine having to be deradicalized, OP, it’s about the all the warmongers and religious fundamentalists and radicals on both sides who need to be deradicalized.

There will never be an end to this as long as I live if we continue to blame either Israel or the Palestinians. Both is wrong, both of them haven’t done nearly enough to stop this insanity.

(But yeah, I totally agree, the current right wing Israeli government is a hopeless case if you want peace.)

I’m really trying very hard not to complain, after all I was born in Germany, the country responsible for the worst genocide in human history. I feel like I don’t have the right to complain - so let me at least EXplain:

I’m 49 years old. I absolutely hate our Nazis (which sadly do exist). Always did, always will.

In the early 1990s, I participated in a student exchange to Paris - and my host family was Jewish. They were amazing people, but I was 15 and didn’t know much about our history back then. To this day, I remember the face of the dad who greeted me, showed me my room and told me they were Jewish. Who knows how many of his relatives had been killed by Germans? And I was this spoiled brat who knew fuck all and was just interested in playing video games. Makes me cringe to this day.

Last year I went to the Netherlands on vacation. Sat on a park bench in Zaanse Schans, looking at windmills. Old guy asked me if he could sit beside me. We start talking. Turns out his Jewish dad fled from the Nazis to Mexico. Bam - one moment you mind your own business, the next you’re in a delicate, very serious conversation. I clumsily tried telling him all I felt in that moment, the infinite sadness in my heart about Nazi crimes and I couldn’t find the right words.

These things happen. It’s not easy, but I try to do my part.

I despise the Nazis for impacting so many lives. I know my problems are minute compared to the impact Nazi crimes had on their victims. But what I’m also saying is that it really hurts to read comments like “Germany loves its nazis” on here when I hate them so much.

You love your generalizing stereotypes, just like the Nazis did.

They keep saying that you should have the right to shoot people who break into someone else’s house. But when someone actually does it, they don’t like it either.

OP fails to recognize the immense, irrational fear of German politicians to be viewed as anti-Israel and therefore antisemitic.

As a German it’s completely mind boggling to me that some societies tolerate an ideology that is responsible for plunging the world into its biggest humane catastrophe (so far), for the sake of free speech. Nazi ideology wants to kill free speech. If you truly want to protect free speech, you have to at least limit it to all the things that do not threaten it.

This guy earned > 1 million euros per year before he became chancellor and told a journalist he believes he’s middle class. Nuff said.

Even if the judiciary system in your country doesn’t do its work, people taking justice in their own hands is a fundamentally bad thing for a society. I don’t pity predators if they get what they deserve, but I pity the society that suddenly has to define boundaries - where do you draw the line? Not all cases are clear cut. Not everyone operates on the same set of morals.

Example: Religious zealots really do believe that abortions kill children. If society doesn’t categorically forbid people to take justice into their own hands but goes “well, in this case, we can all understand”, you will have other people acting in ways they perceive as equally justifiable. And then abortion doctors get murdered.

The users who downvoted me don’t seem to have this understanding, they would rather have revenge. If you people don’t understand that self-justice will ultimately lead to a more violent society, then go ahead, downvote me again. You’re the reason your country isn’t a more civilized place, wherever you live.

Is that really the only problem you see with people taking justice into their own hands? Less oversight?

Good software, but subscription plans are a deal breaker for me.