google search results are still kind of useful especially for non-english language queries, anyone knows a good alternative?
searxng also doesn’t really seem to work these days…
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“internet indexer” should really be a government / EU / UN sponsored public utility thing. And then you have front ends that can improve the search query and filter and sort the results.
I don’t know how much it would cost / how large a data center it would take to cache the web pages like google does. But there is just no reason to have so much wealth / advertising drain from the public for such a fundamental thing.
Agreed. The internet is a utility at this point. Its required for many things included services the government runs already.
There’s probably going to be a large data center or 10 for sale in a few years 🤞🏻
“Just pickup an old data centre on the cheap and slap Linux on it”
The next step in selfhosting.
Sociologically, economically and environmentally, these data centers aren’t going to be feasible. Our planet can not sustain them. You can build a nuclear energy site in every state, you will have fails and net losses, you will have nuclear, biological and chemical contamination along the way amd you will destroy lives trying to make a form of automation better.
That is what the observation I’ve had is. Is unless we put these things near propane sources or have them generating their own c02 as a coolant or having them do anything else but use water based energy even nuclear rods being soaked for steam based energy isn’t going to save the data centers it will only make things worse.
Also nuclear power plants are just massive targets for enemies. Right now it’s airforce bases and potential silos, you add nuclear power plants into the mix and have those in major civilian areas that’s now something an enemy can leverage. Bet you all never thought of that one.
I think we will see the effort aof Ai die out and it will be the world coming back to its senses and it’ll be one for the history books.
The future will be like, we gave up artificial intelligence because our planet would get fucked badly.
It’s not meant for this planet and trying to make it work out is a fatal, futile, worthless endeavor.
Well they will probably be massively over capacity. But then you could run the for half a day during sunlight hours and just use solar. Solar PM and wind kite power basically gives us near infinite super cheap energy at certain times, so you could still make use of those compute centers. Turn them off during the night, modernize the cooling and noise dampening, add some solar and you can use the compute to run models to create new medicines like anti-cancer meds or protein folding. Unlikely that’s going to happen but that is what a sane civilization would do with all that compute.
modernize the cooling
You’re not going to be able to remove the amount of heat they use with wind or evaporative methods, you need refrigerants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_refrigeration is where it’s at.
You can build a modified kegerator and make it into a chiller https://future4200.com/t/chiller-hack-diy/220. Chillers are easy to make and if you look around they’re wildly abundant.
The thing is, is the amount of refrigerant it would take and what it would take to keep it going effectively would mean down time and because they’re greedy fucking assholes they don’t want down time because that means money lost. So building them near natural gas and propane sources might be the only way to make it worth it.
The ultimate issue is the footprint they would need to build the facility needed to run it and recapture and reuse the propane.
to run models to create new medicines like anti-cancer meds
Treatments in Oncology AI is used in what is called CyberKnife® treatment in oncology. Moreover, a group of ML algorithms have been recently successfully trained to rank clinically relevant cancer drugs based on the drugs’ predicted efficacy in reducing cancer cell growth. One of the successful applications of AI in Oncology is the implication of AI with robotics for radiotherapy.63 Moreover, AI in Oncology provides a promising application in the area of cancer imaging.7 However, AI algorithms seem to be promising in solving problems and overcoming obstacles that face discovering and designing new anticancer drugs.8
source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12232943/
They are. They’re using it an almost every field of medicine and science. Theoretical Physicists are loving AI.
And all of them will be borderline useless for actual compute
How so? Is the hardware that special? One computer is much like the next you just have to be creative in repurposing them. Linux runs on millions of devices that a great deal of the population would consider highly obsolete. Just an example, I’m not saying that that’s the actual answer to this question. It might be, I’m just kind of completely ignorant as to what kind of hardware these companies are installing… It sounds like a lot of memory and a lot of GPU power.
Site maps on all websites should come back. Being able to navigate every service the site offers rather than downloading the app and using fuck all directions from a shitty side bar that lags and then you’re redirected to an Ai assistant that tells you inconvenient hours of when you can actually talk to a real human. All because the navigation is fucked up and everything is relying on automation and laziness.
This might be one of those things where self hosting isn’t worth the pain, like email.
I’ve been using Kagi for several years now and have been very happy with it.
Searxng has been pretty sweet, been hosting my own for about a year and some change with pretty good results.
I do get blocked by engines occasionally which can have a drastic impact on results.
They are literally giving part of your subscription fee to fucking Russia. In comparison, DuckDuckGo have ended their partnership with Yandex. Vlads refusal to follow suit and his steadfast support of Yandex is quite telling to say the least.
Yet another part of your subscription goes to Elon Musks xAI to support Grok in their AI assistant. Even if you are not using that model, all paying users are effectively subsidizing the cost of the Grok API calls. You can’t opt out of that.
Man, I used kagi for 2 months or so and stopped subscribing after that because while there wasn’t really anything that I’d seen that’d make me outright unsubscribe there were many things that I found odd and it didn’t make sense to pay so much for a product that I didn’t agree with all that much. For instance:
I was unable to remove yandex from my search because:
what makes it difficult to act on this is that Kagi does not save searches as a matter of privacy policy, and including more moving parts would make debugging search quality issues nearly impossible
- link here
Despite having so many AI features that barely fit into a search engine, such as a translator (slop frontend) and an entire browser?
It called itself “unprofitable” because search is so expensive while giving an honestly insane quota of AI use as far as I can understand (ex. if user pays 10$ for the kagi subscription: 10$ - 20% worth of tokens = 8$ total quota), giving 100 free searches with, as far as I could see, very little protection against burner emails (the translator seems to not need an account at all and it’s an llm frontend, so it shouldn’t be cheap), and it had many different views in many different places from me.
But all that made me do was hmmm and shrug it off. I mean, we’re different humans from different backgrounds, of course we’d hold different views.
But holy shit. Hoooooooly shit. That conversation about the GDPR in the article. What the fuck. What in the actual fuck did I just read there. The fact that the CEO emailed him an explanation despite him explicitly asking to not be emailed too. Bruh.
You should look into why so many people isn’t angry at Russia and are now blaming US. Your anger is exactly how US manufactures consent for all their wars, and it keeps you from discovering why people doesn’t hate Russia and even blame US/the west for starting it. They simply create a lynchmob - an echo-chamber - where people won’t listen to counter points bco anger. It works.
ALL US moral attacks on their ‘enemies’ (Ussr/Russia, N.Korea, China, Iran and oc ALL nations that wont be dictated how to live by the US elite) are such manufactured BS, and it all runs on the anger they create in people, and from there, they can do what they want in the name of ‘war against evil’. It will continue as long as people keep believing US and their controlled information bubble.
Give it a try, just read all the headlines in this list: What really happened in Ukraine?
If you couldn’t, or you still refuse the idea of foul play after reading - they got to you…
tankie “leftists” fuck off
Tankie that use youtube conspiracy as objective truth
Also, you can hate both the USA and Russia, look, you can even hate China at the same time!! Crazy shit right?
Thank you for your service. 50 ₽ have been deposited in your bank account. Don’t forget to fill your quota by the end of the day unless you want to volunteer for military service.
Tankie saying everyone else is sheeple while espousing conspiracy theory YouTube playlist as objective truth.
Not sure why liberal zionists are downvoting you, but thanks for the good read in the link
You didn’t even open the link to realize it’s not an article huh
I like SearXNG,brave search and mojeek. I understand the controversies with Brave but it’s the only good one I can find.
kinda works, but their results are a bit crippled compared to google (also, no way to search specific timeframe)
?
Ah, you mean a custom timeframe. Like where you pick your own dates.
yeah, i search with ‘before 2023’ to filter AI slop often
Kagi.
Searxng too much effort.
KagI is pretty good in various languages.
Kagi is still $10+tax a month. That’s $120 a year (plus tax).
SearXNG is $0 and a few minutes of my time whenever I tweak the configuration.
If you’re there with Searx then it’s pretty similar to how Kagi works. Kagi sends requests to various search providers and has some of its own index then shows results based on the various sources.
I found Searx/Searxng slow, 5-6 seconds per query (to get a response from each source), though it seems others have it working faster. Might have been some IP or rate limiting issue.
Kagi has easy ways to raise/lower rankings and users can report AI slop pages to have them removed, but all in all Searx gives pretty good results.
You can tune SearXNG results in a similar way. There’s just no easy UI for it.
And yes, it’s often slower than commercially available search engines - but it’s completely free, without trackers, and it’s combining results from various different engines. I can live with that.
Yip. It might not have been clear but my point was that if you have a SearXNG instance set up and running well, then Kagi may well not be worth the cost since you’ve already got most of its strengths.
They should use Fable to find hacks that work
I love degoog.
looks neat, will look into it. tysm!
That’s unfortunate, but not surprising. Luckily, the world works without google.
Get SearxNG and you’ll never need another search engine.
bruh i literally mentioned in the post that SearXNG isn’t working properly
Damn I must’ve overread that. But how isn’t it working? I have a private instance and it has been working without problems apart from connecting to brave, which is rate limiting me immediately. And there’s so many sites to choose as potential providers, losing a few to rate limits honestly doesn’t seem like a big deal.
@hexagonwin, yeah—the non-English query thing is the real pain point with most replacements. I’ve been testing a few setups lately, and honestly, combining SearXNG with Brave Search’s API (or just using Brave directly for queries) gets you back some of that multilingual depth that Whoogle had. The indexing lag is real though. We actually built a small comparison of search APIs for devs who need reliable multilingual results—more context at https://cxgo.ai/l/mN06BJw if you’re already evaluating alternatives.
fuck off clanker
Just report please. There is an influx of spam from lemmy.1095.me, which I’ve already shared to the lemmy.world team.
Those “AI detection” websites are kinda useless tbh
You can notice that it was AI slop by the fact that they use em-dashes almost randomly
multilingual results—more context
Here, there should’ve been a comma, not an em-dash
And the comment overall is very linear, humans won’t write something so linear
A human would have rambled a bit, added unnecessary details, and so on;AIs are also very good at no repeating the same words, in a human-written text (on the internet), you’ll almost always find repetitions or something that doesn’t sound quite right
literally 5 posts down from this one there is someone who’s spent 2 years making their own search engine because Google is shit lmao
The modern internet is getting filthier by the day. Gone are the days where independent software used to be a thing I suppose.
Oh, idk. The entire internet and supporting infrastructure pretty much runs on opensourced software. When you’re talking about a search engine tho, unless you have a data center, a huge pile of cash, and a willingness to part with most of it, search engines are expensive to run.
We’re going to have a lot of data centres sitting idle when the AI bubble bursts.
They’ll get retooled just like all past, unsuccessful technology. However, I am curious why idle data centers would cause you heartburn. That cycle is not only relegated to realm of internet related technology. That happens throughout all levels.
I hope we will get there any time soon ! Discount HDD !
You man HDD’s returning back to their normal price instead of the hyperinflated price from data centers buying them in bulk. It wouldn’t be discounted it just wouldn’t be the hyperinflated price it is now. ☝🏻
Hear me out. From day one we all needed to collectively reject any effort to make any profit online. I don’t care if you built something cool, sold furry art or create some neat SAAS. Day one everything should have been stolen and replicated. Everyone should have been terrified of putting anything online out of fear that the monetary value would go to 0 as it was digitally recreated. We wouldn’t be in this situation today with Trump if we stood our ground. We’d have flying cars and world peace
From day one we all needed to collectively reject any effort to make any profit online.
WUT? Why?
We wouldn’t be in this situation today with Trump
Trump was inevitable and is a product of silly, gullible Americans blown about by political winds without a compass or direction. Americans don’t vote with the long term in mind. For the most part, their future lies within 4 year increments, never really grasping the fact that legislation passed today will be with us for generations if not longer. All you have to do is look at Cannabis laws in this country perpetuated by rich, white, racist, capitalist from 100 years ago.
We’d have flying cars and world peace
As someone who has been promised flying cars for 71 years, I don’t think I want the average motorist flying about all willy nilly. We can’t even handle the tarmac ffs…and you want flying cars? World peace? The world doesn’t want peace. There is too much to be had in conflict.
WUT? Why?
Monetization is the root of a majority of our issues. Without monetizing you don’t get data scarcity, profile tracking, Meta, Cambridge analyticals and eventually data that feeds into the current political systems. There is a direct arrow to our current problems that goes from early days of the internet up through the monetization into data scarcity, data collection and all the marketing tools that eventually feed into modern propaganda. Safe guarding against scarcity by creating a hostile internet and culture to monetization would have prevented all of this going on currently. We can’t ever go back to that. We only ever had one chance. New frontiers do not show up every century. Our job was to keep the people who ruined everything else away.
Safe guarding against scarcity by creating a hostile internet and culture to monetization would have prevented all of this going on currently.
That die was cast long before the internet.
But it could have been different. I just think we were responsible for the culture. This stuff was inevitable. But we had the ability to shape the culture and instead they dangled a trinket in front of us and we forgot and they captured the new frontier like they did with others.
But now maybe if we can reflect, find out what was done, create awareness and vigilance to fight them in the next frontier whenever that is
But it could have been different
It should have been different, but we are shortsighted, greedy, with an overly inflated sense of self importance, and enamored with the shiny. It may sound defeatist, but I gave up trying to save the world back in the 60s when I came to the sobering yet liberating realization that 1) The world doesn’t want to be saved. 2) At best I can only try to influence a few people around me, relatively speaking, and in turn hopefully they do the same. I vote, go protest, do call and writing campaigns, but at the end of the day, I am but one man hoping that America does the right thing…which we rarely do.
I think we have way more ability to shape things then people believe. I remember at one point reddit said something like only 10% of users comment. Even less posted. Those were us. It was the nerds.
And no we weren’t short sighted because the early days of the internet everyone knew about data scarcity and how eventually the people who ruined cable and movies and every other media platform would come for the internet. There was so many people yelling that we needed to safe guard against that. But then Metallica sued Napster. Pewdiepie made millions. YouTube introduced ads. Instead of fucking them up, we all just went with it and forgot.
Biden had handlers, who probably were more in the Gen X - Millennial range and they were making the policies that were benefitting the younger generations.
Trump is a narcissistic individual. He’s part of the silent generation, everything he’s done is to only better the people he sees as younger than his generation which is boomers. It’s how its always worked it’s like tv and the last generation always creating media for the current one.
That’s why I say we need a Gen X in office but they’re too petty for politics, that’s why we’re stuck with the old farts in office because young people aren’t interested into getting into office.
It’s like Japan and it’s aging population, who’s gonna take over when the old people are gone?
Japan is creating robots for the population replacement due to birth rates plummeting. So who’s gonna run the US government when the old people are gone? Robots or the next generation?
Biden…the man who contributed a ton of content to the Patriot Act. The man who said: ‘If Israel didn’t exist, we’d have to invent it.’ What’s he saying? He’s saying that Israel, along with other entities world wide, serve America’s own selfish self interests. I wouldn’t be holding him up as some level of superiority.
That’s why I say we need a Gen X in office
I’ve long said we need a age cap. Get some new blood in there. They sure as shit can’t screw it up more than it is. But we’ve turned voting for the president of the United states into a World Wide Wrestling Federation event replete with all the glitz, glamor, and all the fakery you can stomach.
birth rates plummeting.
There’s a reason replacement babies are scarce, and it’s something I wrestled with as a young man back in the 60s. I looked around and thought, there’s no way I’m going to bring another life into this mess. So I opted out.
. I wouldn’t be holding him up as some level of superiority.
I said his handlers.
I’ve long said we need a age cap. Get some new blood in there. They sure as shit can’t screw it up more than it is.
Exactly. We can’t have people over the age of 70 but under the age of 40 running this country. That’s just how it should be.
There’s a reason replacement babies are scarce, and it’s something I wrestled with as a young man back in the 60s. I looked around and thought, there’s no way I’m going to bring another life into this mess. So I opted out.
Ever raise cats? They’re work!!!
A few months ago before joined lemmy I said to my friends and family, we’re going to see an open-source revolution where people are going to start going in on community based ideas. There’s nothing like it either.
Coming together to make an open source project happen is one of those things that makes my back do that happy drippy feeling because everyone gets a say and their input is heard plus a lot of people who give their input aren’t even looking for a pay, nonetheless want to be credited unless were hands-on with a project (like a coder).
Every single thing that’s open source is for the people. Everything that is closed is for the greedy ass corporations.
Not the same but you can use a terminal browser like lynx, links2, w3m, or browsh and pipe the output wherever you want. Similarly you can force standard browsers to run in an html only mode.
I run SearXNG and haven’t looked back honestly, could never get on with Whoogle’s UI
It’s not much of a loss because google search results are shit anyway.
What’s your choice search engine?
Mostly Qwant, occasionally ddg, mojeek and others, including my own instance of SearxNG (google doesn’t respond to it most of the time).
Thanks to enshittification of google, there is not much difference between it and other search engines so being unable to use it via alternative frontends doesn’t make that much of a dofferencd.
I should probably use searxng more often…
Thanks, I’ll check it out… I mainly use ddg currently…
Kagi
I’ll check it out. Any opinion of it over something like duckduckgo?
It usually has better results. The features alone, however, put it above DDG.
Rankings aren’t static. You can block a site, pin it to the top of results, or just derank/promote it.
Want to redirect a domain? You can do that.
Want to see specific results? Like PDFs only, or maybe just small web, educational, news stories, forums, or whatever? Use a lens!
Love AI summaries? You can use them! Hate AI summaries? Don’t worry, they’re off by default and require you to press the small “Summarize” button.
You probably understand bangs, right? Using
!wwill search Wikipedia. You probably also know that some sites, such as Reddit, have shit results so using!rwould be worthless. Kagi supports bangs but also has what they call “snaps” - if you type@w, it will be replaced withsite:wikipedia.com.Oh, yeah, one more thing. No ads. There are no risks of misaligned interests between you, Kagi, and their advertisers.
Misaligned interests is ironically the main reason i don’t use them.
isn’t ddg basically google?
ddg gets results from bing, startpage is the one that gets results from google
yeah its hard to keep track who the sugar daddies are with some of these things.
