China launched its most extensive war games around Taiwan on Monday to showcase Beijing’s ability to cut off the island from outside support in a conflict, testing Taipei’s resolve to defend itself and its arsenal of U.S.-made weapons.
The Eastern Theatre Command said it had deployed troops, warships, fighter jets and artillery for its “Justice Mission 2025” exercises to encircle the democratically governed island, conduct live fire and simulated strikes on land and sea targets, and drills to blockade Taiwan’s main ports.
The live-firing exercises will continue on Tuesday across a record seven zones designated by China’s Maritime Safety Administration, making the drills the largest to date by total coverage and in areas closer to Taiwan than previous exercises. The military had initially said artillery firing would be confined to five zones.
The USA routinely does military exercises in the Taiwan strait. China has a right to defend itself from US+Taiwan aggression.
You do know that the world isn’t black and white, right? Both sides can be bad …
Both sides can be bad, doesn’t mean both sides are equally bad. China hasn’t carried out a military action in 4 decades.
So they should get to annex one little country, as a treat? Lol
(Also depending how you define military action, thats false. They keep having border scuffles with India for starters.)
But China has not annexed Taiwan, you’re talking in hypotheticals. If China invades Taiwan tomorrow, maybe we can discuss that, but as of now China hasn’t done anything like that.
“I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!”
“I’m just commenting the letter N. I don’t know what the next commenter might reply!”
“No, of course our reactor needs pure uranium. But it’s for peaceful purposes.”
By your logic, really you shouldn’t complain no matter how close our vastly superior stealth bombers fly to that shitty dam.
China is literally doing this in response to Taiwan escalating by purchasing $11bn in US weapons, it’s specified on the article itself. China did not start this
Bro I’m not circling my neighbors house because he bought a new rifle. Have you tried living in a democracy?
And to defend myself I simulate how to invade my neighbor country… Sure… “Defense”…
The post literally says:
China launched its most extensive war games around Taiwan on Monday to showcase Beijing’s ability to cut off the island from outside support in a conflict
Cutting Taiwan from US support in case of conflict is famously NOT invasion, it’s defense against US attacks.
To cut off the island from outside support in a conflict with…who?
Conflict =/= invasion, though?
So we’re in agreement with the obvious fact that China is running drills to cut off Taiwan from external aid in case it has a conflict with Taiwan, right?
In response to Taiwan buying $11bn in US weapons, China carries out a military exercise in which it simulates a Taiwan encirclement to prevent it from US military involvement, yes
US military involvement in case of what?
We gotta make sure this passes the clown captcha test. Otherwise it has the same energy as “the American civil war was just for states rights”
Oh, so like when the USA does the same to Venezuela and Cuba it’s just self defense like Trump says?
The difference being that the USA actively murders hundreds of thousands of people in both countries through economic sanctioning, whereas China has enacted no economic blockade and is in fact Taiwan’s largest economic partner.
From the article:
The exercises began 11 days after the U.S. announced $11.1 billion in arms sales to Taiwan, the largest ever weapons package for the island
Surely Trump is just being a good guy selling weapons to heckin wholesome Republic of China (which not only claims officially the entirety of the Mainland, but also the entire country of Mongolia and many lands in Bhutan, Pakistan, India or even Japan). Come on, surely this US involvement in war is the correct one!
I feel like anyone who says “Republic of China” is a CCP troll. The comment itself is unhinged. No, Taiwan does not want to conquer most of the Asia, this is simply about stopping another invasion. You’re the baddies, leave others alone, no one wants to invade you.
The picture is from Wikipedia, famous CCP troll organization?
WHHHAAAATTTTTT??!??!!!?
But all Lemmy.ml dwellers said China is not an imperialist country!!!
This must be some shitty western propaganda!!!
Interesting that would consider it imperialism when a country does a military exercise on the coast of their own country near an island that was stripped away from one’s direct control by imperialists when the military exercise is specifically to confirm readiness for the thing that the imperialists keep saying they are going to do - establish greater and greater military presence in the region.
Remember, you likely already agree that the US is an imperialist force, the largest in the world. Does the US deploy its military for good reasons or is it an abusive bully? If China says that it hears the US threats to build up military surrounding China and in particular in Taiwan, is it consistent for us to believe the US is telling the truth this time?
an island that was stripped away from one’s direct control by imperialists
Can you elaborate on this? I love watching gymnastics.
During the Chinese civil war, the PLA defeated the KMT and the KMT fled to the island province of Taiwan, a part of the nation state of China.
The US and British navies protected the KMT during their retreat and afterward, essentially creating a protectorate out of the island while the KMT prosecuted the fascist White Terror, with mass killings and political repression for the next 40 years, only adopting a liberal democratic formation once the Brits established a similar one in Hong Kong, which was another imperialist holding stripped away from China.
That you don’t know this about the history of the island you claim as your cause is unsurprising
My question was how exactly it was “stripped away from the CCP’s control”, which you didn’t address at any point in your colourful answer. You yourself admit it was always Republican territory. so which is it, then?
I love repeating myself in these threads. It’s so fun. Political parties do not control territories. That’s not how anything works. When Japan took Korea, it was not a party within Japan that took it. It was the nation state that took it. When Japan took Taiwan it was not a party within Japan that took Taiwan, it was the nation state that took it. When the US took Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, etc same thing. You would never say that it was Democratic-Republicans that own the Louisiana Purchase even though they were in power when the purchase took place.
The nation state of China, with its competing factions, reclaimed the island of Taiwan by pushing out the Japanese. The retreating army of the KMT fled to the island as refuge and the British and American warships protected them, setting up the island and the party to be a fascist vassal of the North Atlantic imperial regime. At no time did the retreating army secede nor declare independence. It claimed that despite having lost the war and despite having lost popular support that it was still the rightful government of China. Never mind that it had to kill tens of thousands of Chinese citizens who disagreed. Never mind that it spent 40 years violently and brutally crushing all forms of dissent against its position. And never mind that the imperialists never stopped supporting the KMT with warships, intelligence, arms, foreign direct investment, and diplomacy despite it being about as legitimate of a government as Juan Guaido.
Saying that the island belongs to the KMT is a category error. Parties don’t own territory. Nation states do. This is why the UN doesn’t have separate delegations for Labor, Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, Greens, AFD, etc.
But by this logic, China is already in control of Taiwan, no? So why is the CPC threatening an invasion?
Truth is that you can’t really consider nations going through a civil war to be truly the same entity. I mean, they were literally fighting each other over control and claimed lands, bit strange if it’s all the same China no?
China (led by the CPC) is claiming lands it never controlled that are currently in control of China (led by the KMT). They’re de facto separate nation states, and the communist one does not and has never controlled Taiwan. Its territorial claims come from it claiming to be the successor state (or continuation state) of the Republic of China (officially, Mao declared the foundation of a new People’s Republic of China).
This is a wildly different situation from e.g. Labour/Conservatives in the UK. Neither make competing territorial claims nor claim to both be in power at the same time. They also all serve the same government, which the CPC/KMT do not.
I would like to help you see your words the way I see them.
But by this logic, China is already in control of Taiwan, no?
Language matters. The nation-state of China isn’t really a controller of things so much as the government of China is controller of things. I would use the word “includes” here. By this logic, China, the nation-state, already includes Taiwan. This is indeed what I have been saying.
So why is the CPC threatening an invasion?
This is a great question and one I encourage everyone to examine. The CPC is very clear, and has been very clear for 50 years that it does not need to invade in order to integrate Taiwan into China, that it is confident Taiwan will peacefully integrate when the conditions are right for it. So then why is China threatening to invade Taiwan? As I’ve been saying, it’s exclusively because of national security. The US has been very clear that it is militarily focused on China, even to the exclusion of being focused on Russia. It is turning all of its power, soft and hard, overt and covert, political and military, diplomatic and subversive, directly and via proxies, towards China. And since the retreat of the KMT, the US and UK have been militarily supporting the KMT while they committed atrocities in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, and many other countries. China’s demonstrations of force are explicitly a deterrent against foreign intervention, and they will invade to protect their national security. They will not invade without that imminent threat.
Truth is that you can’t really consider nations going through a civil war to be truly the same entity.
That’s just not true. It happens all the time. Again, language here matters. Your claim is that you can’t really consider “nations” going through a civil war, and to be clear, in this case, only ONE nation was going through a civil war, the Chinese nation. The reason I say this is because nation and nation-state are different concepts. For example, in Czechoslovakia there was one state with 2 nations resident - the Czech nation and the Slovak nation. When the country split it was a peaceful transition with a mutual declaration of recognition for the existence of two separate states and done with diplomatic channels to ensure international recognition. However, when Castro and Che overthrew Batista, there was not one Cuba and then another Cuba. There was one nation-state the whole time. One did not claim territorial superiority over the over, they claimed governance superiority over the nation-state. (Side note, there is also a Taino nation within Cuba, like there are many indigenous nations inside the United States. These are not nation-states, they are nations without states).
I mean, they were literally fighting each other over control and claimed lands, bit strange if it’s all the same China no?
They were not fighting each other over control and claimed lands, and thus, it’s not strange at all. In fact, any attempt at revolutionary change makes no mention of specific territories that they believe are theirs. You don’t see military coups making territorial claims, do you? All those times the US couped other nation-states, you think they made entirely new nation-states by doing that? Not at all. It’s never been talked about that way, you’ve never talked about it that way, you weren’t educated that way. There’s nothing supporting this position except that you are trying to rationalize your assumption that of course I’m wrong and China is wrong and the narrative you believe about Taiwan is correct. But this is where that leads to, entirely new concepts you’ve never thought of for all the dozens of circumstances you’ve studied, heard about, or watched unfold live. This is what gymnastics looks like.
China (led by the CPC) is claiming lands it never controlled that are currently in control of China (led by the KMT).
Again, no. There is only one China. The CPC says this. The KMT says this. The US says this. The UN says this. The EU says this. There are not two Chinas. There is one China that is territorially inclusive of the mainland, the island of Taiwan, and the islands of Hong Kong. Both the island of Taiwan and the islands of Hong Kong were separated from the governance of China by British gunboats, albeit at different times. Neither the governments of the island of Taiwan nor of the island of Hong Kong ever declared independence or seceded from China.
The island of Taiwan was indeed under the control of the KMT, a now disgraced political faction of the nation-state of China. But it remained that way because the British and US interfered to prevent the PLA and the KMT from negotiating an end to the war by blockading the island with their gunboats. The KMT never said “thanks Britain, we’re so excited to start own country and do it our way on this wonderful island we call home”. They said “We are still relevant and we are still the only legitimate government of the nation-state of China which absolutely definitely continues to territorially include the island we retreated to because it was literally part of the nation-state we claim to rule over.”
They’re de facto separate nation states
No. They’re not. First, they’re de facto both comprising the Chinese nation. It is the Han nation that inhabits both the mainland and the island of Taiwan. There is another nation on Taiwan, an indigenous one, but they are not who we’re discussing. When the Dutch settled New Amsterdam, they were WAY far away from the mainland, they had their own government and all, but they were both one nation and one nation-state. When the English eventually took over the American colonies, the territory of New Amsterdam was no longer part of the Dutch nation nor the nation-state of The Netherlands - it was now part of the English nation and the British nation-state. When the English colonizers revolted and seceded from the nation-state of Britain, they created a new state, the USA, but they did not create a new nation, as they were still all English (of course, with varied social histories).
You could argue that Taiwan is a de facto separate state, but you’d have to describe what you mean in specific details because not a single official body claims that Taiwan is a separate state and certainly not a separate nation-state. Everything you could use to describe Taiwan as a de facto state would reduce down to being a vassal of the European empire that intervened in the civil war to create a protectorate, not a state.
the communist one does not and has never controlled Taiwan
Again, changing of the guard has NEVER created a distinct state that somehow has to reassert all of the prior state’s territorial claims. Never. So why are you insisting that it must be true for China?
Its territorial claims come from it claiming to be the successor state (or continuation state) of the Republic of China
It’s territorial claims come from it being the government of the nation-state of China. The CPC, as it were, took over from the previous government. They did not make a new state. They took the state that existed.
This is a wildly different situation from e.g. Labour/Conservatives in the UK. Neither make competing territorial claims nor claim to both be in power at the same time. They also all serve the same government, which the CPC/KMT do not.
Don’t confuse the liberal democratic KMT of the last 20 years with the KMT I am speaking of. The CPC and the KMT served the same state. They were all citizens of China, they were all motivated by their vision for what China should be. The fight was entirely internal to China between and among factions within China. It was not an invasion, it was not 2 separate governments, it was not 2 separate nations, and it was not 2 separate states. There was one China, there continues to be one China, and there were 2 factions and there continue to be those 2 factions. They were both in China and they both continued to be in China.
Again, this is obvious pretty much everywhere else in the world. When an occupying force takes a city, we don’t say that the city is now a part of that nation-state, we say that the original nation-state is occupied. If the US were to invade Canada and garrison Quebec while the Quebecois chose not to seceded nor declare independence but instead just created new laws and claimed they were the real Canada and then killed everyone in Quebec who disagreed with them and propagandized 3 new generations of children, would you say Quebec is a totally independent nation-state and that Canada has no claim whatsoever?
I mean, maybe you would, but then we’d see the US just carving chunks off of other countries left and right. There’s a reason we have use historical processes of official consensus for these things. What the Brits and Yanks did to China was not right then, and it’s not right now, and 70 years is a very short period of time for an 8000-year-old civilization. I know 70 years is more than a full quarter of the lifetime of the USA, but just because some imperialists decided to make Chiang Kai-shek a prototype for Juan Guaido doesn’t actually change these larger scale things.
Edit: And just to be clear about the threatening invasion thing. I just saw a headline that the US has just bombed is 30th boat in its campaign against Venezuela, and I’m sitting here thinking, does anyone sit here and realize that they are utterly convinced the only reason China isn’t invading Taiwan is because the US is protecting Taiwan while also simultaneously thinking maybe the US won’t invade Venezuela because really it’s just about drugs? I just feel so crazy watching these things happen contemporaneously and people just not seeing what is reality and what is false narrative.
Does this make Estonia an imperialist country in your opinion?
Laughably incomparable.
Yeah, Estonia are ‘The Good White Guys™’ whereas China are ‘Le Evil Asiatic Empire’
Are you mentally ill or something? That was a defensive exercise and this has nothing to do with race.
No. They’re just a tankie. Probably paid by the CCP for propaganda or trying to increase their social credit score.
Oh god, not the 2015 social credit score propaganda… I expected better from Lemmy tbh, I hoped that people competent enough to understand the good parts of the Fediverse would be able to discern from the most obvious bullshit propaganda in the world. You’re just showing you haven’t ONCE talked with a Chinese person from China about the topic…
I AM a tankie btw, in that I support Actually Existing Socialist states in their struggle against western imperialism, I just don’t get paid for it. You should contact the Chinese authorities, I’d love to get paid for this!
Why is it that talkies are having a very hard time understanding a difference between training to invade vs training to defend?
“No, you see, my side is the good one and the defensive one in the upcoming war”
-Every nation in every single war in history
Whoever is trying to capture territory from the other side is the invader by definition, putting the other side on the defence, as per definition.
Are you saying Estonia wants to invade Russia? Dude’s clown costume’s made from diamonds
Oh, sorry, I forgot, when did China invade Taiwan? Or anyone for that matter, since China hasn’t participated in a single war in 40 years.
Expansionism can happen without official war declaration, but still a conflict. See: Tibet, Honk Kong, parts of Mongolia
You mean the Taiwanese claim over such territories? I agree, it’s disgusting
Thank God the PRC liberated Hong Kong from British colonial rule!
Are you worried Taiwan is going to invade Beijing? Is chinas army that incompetent?
I mean, it would be cool if they did but I don’t think even corrupt Chinese generals are that worthless.
No, I’m not worried Taiwan is going to invade Beijing. I’m worried that the USA will attempt to put in place a seafare blockade against China together with the puppet nations of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, attempting to generate a casus belli for China against either of them and to manufacture another Ukraine but in the Chinese Sea.
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CCP never had a claim on Taiwan
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CCP didn’t take it when the current Taiwan gov moved there, they only took the mainland.
That’s literally the definition of how countries split in two
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From the article itself:
The exercises began 11 days after the U.S. announced $11.1 billion in arms sales to Taiwan
How is China the aggressor here? Imagine if Cuba suddenly imported $11bn in weapons from Russia, do you think that would warrant no reaction from the US administration?
“I had to kill him, officer, he was attending self defence classes with the intent to hit me.”
/s
Who has China killed exactly by doing military training exercises?
What kind of military exercises are they doing?
Be specific. What scenario are they practicing here?
Per the article:
cut off the island from outside support in a conflict
So, preventing US interference in case of a conflict. This says nothing about invasion.
Just like Russia was doing completely innocent military exercises near the Ukrainian border in the run up to waging all out years long war on its much smaller neighbour. Oops, sorry, no, you don’t call it that, you call it a three day “special military operation”.
/s in case you missed it.
Again the angry boy complaining about the imaginary invasion of Taiwan!!
Do you believe Taiwan is going to invade the PRC?
No, but in the likely case of a USA-started miltary conflict or economic blockade of China in the region, Taiwan is essentially an unsinkable USA aircraft carrier full of military bases, and is likely to collaborate with USA aggression. After all, Taiwan routinely carries out similar military drills with the USA.
Naval blockades don’t really work when your adversary has a limitless supply of antiship missiles
Taiwan’s military is surprisingly ramshackle, unless you mean the US? I’m not sure they can reliably be considered an adversary of China anymore. Xi could buy a few million of Trump’s crypto and all would be forgiven.
Ah yes, the infamous ramshackle F35
10 cent army out in force
10 cent army? I want to see Taiwan armed to the teeth. They can’t solo the CCP in their current state.
No one is soloing anyone, including China and Russia
That’s really the crux of the issue. If China finally move against Taiwan, who will help? Japan seems the most reliable ally at the moment, and perhaps Australia. The US are untrustworthy.
Sinc solo was mentioned lol.
Can you imagine China turning to a wartime economy?
China will make Japan and Taiwan look like the us made Baghdad FROM THEIR SHORES.
This whole conversation is ridiculous. China doesn’t move on Taiwan because of economic implications, not because of any threat from any outside actor. The US is on the other side of the world, Venezuela is about as big a pill as they can swallow. We failed in Korea, we failed in Vietnam. What on earth makes anyone think we can do anything in chinas civil war?
China is THE manufacturing and logistics powerhouse on this planet. That’s what wins wars and no one is even close.
Fuck the CCP and PLA. Free West Taiwan.
Lets say tomorrow, the US manages to occupy the entirety of mainland China, and schedules elections for next week. Who do you think the people of mainland China elect? A business-friendly lib who promises American companies will invest in resource extraction and privatization or reelect the guys who brought a billion people from poverty and regular famine to first world living standards within living memory?
Elected by who? You’re definitely going to see very different opinions by different ethnicities
Do you think they’d prefer getting fucked by capitalism like the former SSRs were in the 90s, or autonomy within China, like they have now?
Oppressed minorities tend to avoid authoritarian states
Authoritarian how? In that capitalists aren’t free to control the government?
I’d agree China’s lack of free speech makes them more authoritarian, if I hadn’t watched cops kick the shit out of and/or arrest people protesting against genocide in the US and europe for the last 2 years.
Hong Kong oppression against dissidents…
That proven color revolution? Should they just allow US backed students to take over and give the reins to western puppets…?
Former SSRs are doing much better now than when they were vassal states and resource producers for Moscow.
Have you been to any of those states and seen the rotting public infrastructure? Talked to anyone over 50?
Am in the former Kazakhstan SSR rn.
“Democratically controlled” just means controlled by capitalists. I’m tired of the trope.
Let’s gooo, cheaper electronics if they win.
Unobtainable computers if the americant’s mess this up
The replies to this post are a goldmine for tankie accounts to block
Wanted to comment the same. Love it, keep the whining tankies coming, I’m getting an accurate blocklist with zero effort
