I’m curious on your opinion of the execution of Ronald Clark O’Bryan in 1984.
There’s this myth that strangers are going to taint Halloween candy with poison or razor blades or drugs, so you have to check the packaging to make sure it’s factory sealed or better yet only go to our Trunk Or Treat event open only to members of Our Church. Our Church: “Fear and hate everyone who isn’t a member!TM”
Yeah let me tell you something about Our Church: The United States is the third largest nation by landmass and population and 250 years old, and out of all those people in all that space in all that time, the number of children harmed by tainted Halloween candy is ONE: Timothy O’Bryan, 1974, age 8. The son of Ronald Clark O’Bryan, a deacon of the Second Baptist Church.
Approaching Halloween of 1974, Ronald Clark O’Bryan opened several Pixy Stix (if you’re not familiar, these are straw-like tubes full of a sweet and tart powder. Small ones are crimped paper tubes, larger ones are plastic tubes heat crimped at one end and folded over and stapled at the other), poured out the candy, mixed it with potassium cyanide, poured the poisoned mixture back in the tubes and re-stapled them. His intended victim: His own son, Timothy. His motive: Life insurance fraud.
He handed out several of the tubes, to his own daughter and several other neighborhood children. After trick or treating, his son asked to eat some of his candy, and Ronald urged him to eat the Pixy Stix. He needed help with the staple, and then complained of the bitter taste. Ronald offered him Kool-Aid to help with the taste. His son complained of stomach pain and ran to the bathroom where he began convulsing and vomiting, before dying in Ronald’s arms.
He raised the alarm, “My child just ate a Pixy Stix and died! Check your child’s Halloween candy for Pixy Stix!” All of the other tainted tubes were recovered, one directly from the hands of a boy who had tried to eat the candy, couldn’t open the staple and fell asleep still holding it.
It was found after a short investigation that Ronald O’Bryan had visited a local chemical store to purchase potassium cyanide shortly before Halloween.
Ronald Clark O’Bryan was executed via lethal injection in 1984.
This is just pure moralism that doesn’t engage with my argument. If you want my opinion though, I don’t think he should have been executed.
O’Bryan knew about capital punishment in his state’s legislation and probably took it into account like almost all murderers do. It did not prevent him from killing his son. You are making my case that the death penalty does not prevent murder. There are statistics from all over the world to back this up. Homicide rates are not at all well correlated with the severity of punishment. They are much better correlated with education and poverty rates.
What you are doing is this: You are taking one rather ugly case and using it to justify the status quo or populist sentiment. What if I talked about the five times a trans person attacked a woman? Does that justify how trans people are treated, how they are looked upon with doubt and disgust in this day and age? No. There are cases where whole families are doing well organised welfare fraud. Does that justify the rabidness with which states treat people in need – like significantly lowering payouts when a family member starts menial work? No. Do these couple of cases of welfare fraud deserve the attention they’re getting? I don’t think so.
What if I talked about the five times a trans person attacked a woman?
“Attacked?” So we’re talking assault and/or battery, which is a jailable offense? I take it these five were convicted of felonies and spent some time in prison? Does prison prevent assault? If no, why do we do it at all?
It does not matter! You are not engaging with the argument I was making. I was talking about people conflating specifics, one-offs, and so forth, with the mean and the median among other things. You are derailing the discussion here.
Let’s get to the point about why prisons exist. Prisons and psychiatric institutions share two to three distinct roles.
Containing individuals that pose a danger to themselves (which currently works so-so) or others (which currently works so-so).
To make working people as terrified as possible of becoming part of the lowest rungs of society. Suicide rates in prisons are high! Employment after spending time in prison very unlikely. Many unhoused individuals are former prisoners and often times they are unhoused because they spent time in prison. There is a reason why parents tell their kids to be good in school and behave well, otherwise they might end up in prison or on the street. Prison is one of many methods to condition complacency in the face of restaurant owners ordering their staff to clean up blood in lavatories with minimal protective clothing and workers getting screamed at for not completing concrete pours fast enough.
This doesn’t really count as much but these institution are supposed to rehabilitate individuals. Though it can be argued that locking people up for that is not strictly necessary. And rehabilitation often means becoming a “productive” member of society, not a healed one.
I’m curious on your opinion of the execution of Ronald Clark O’Bryan in 1984.
There’s this myth that strangers are going to taint Halloween candy with poison or razor blades or drugs, so you have to check the packaging to make sure it’s factory sealed or better yet only go to our Trunk Or Treat event open only to members of Our Church. Our Church: “Fear and hate everyone who isn’t a member!TM”
Yeah let me tell you something about Our Church: The United States is the third largest nation by landmass and population and 250 years old, and out of all those people in all that space in all that time, the number of children harmed by tainted Halloween candy is ONE: Timothy O’Bryan, 1974, age 8. The son of Ronald Clark O’Bryan, a deacon of the Second Baptist Church.
Approaching Halloween of 1974, Ronald Clark O’Bryan opened several Pixy Stix (if you’re not familiar, these are straw-like tubes full of a sweet and tart powder. Small ones are crimped paper tubes, larger ones are plastic tubes heat crimped at one end and folded over and stapled at the other), poured out the candy, mixed it with potassium cyanide, poured the poisoned mixture back in the tubes and re-stapled them. His intended victim: His own son, Timothy. His motive: Life insurance fraud.
He handed out several of the tubes, to his own daughter and several other neighborhood children. After trick or treating, his son asked to eat some of his candy, and Ronald urged him to eat the Pixy Stix. He needed help with the staple, and then complained of the bitter taste. Ronald offered him Kool-Aid to help with the taste. His son complained of stomach pain and ran to the bathroom where he began convulsing and vomiting, before dying in Ronald’s arms.
He raised the alarm, “My child just ate a Pixy Stix and died! Check your child’s Halloween candy for Pixy Stix!” All of the other tainted tubes were recovered, one directly from the hands of a boy who had tried to eat the candy, couldn’t open the staple and fell asleep still holding it.
It was found after a short investigation that Ronald O’Bryan had visited a local chemical store to purchase potassium cyanide shortly before Halloween.
Ronald Clark O’Bryan was executed via lethal injection in 1984.
This is just pure moralism that doesn’t engage with my argument. If you want my opinion though, I don’t think he should have been executed.
O’Bryan knew about capital punishment in his state’s legislation and probably took it into account like almost all murderers do. It did not prevent him from killing his son. You are making my case that the death penalty does not prevent murder. There are statistics from all over the world to back this up. Homicide rates are not at all well correlated with the severity of punishment. They are much better correlated with education and poverty rates.
What you are doing is this: You are taking one rather ugly case and using it to justify the status quo or populist sentiment. What if I talked about the five times a trans person attacked a woman? Does that justify how trans people are treated, how they are looked upon with doubt and disgust in this day and age? No. There are cases where whole families are doing well organised welfare fraud. Does that justify the rabidness with which states treat people in need – like significantly lowering payouts when a family member starts menial work? No. Do these couple of cases of welfare fraud deserve the attention they’re getting? I don’t think so.
“Attacked?” So we’re talking assault and/or battery, which is a jailable offense? I take it these five were convicted of felonies and spent some time in prison? Does prison prevent assault? If no, why do we do it at all?
It does not matter! You are not engaging with the argument I was making. I was talking about people conflating specifics, one-offs, and so forth, with the mean and the median among other things. You are derailing the discussion here.
Let’s get to the point about why prisons exist. Prisons and psychiatric institutions share two to three distinct roles.
Containing individuals that pose a danger to themselves (which currently works so-so) or others (which currently works so-so).
To make working people as terrified as possible of becoming part of the lowest rungs of society. Suicide rates in prisons are high! Employment after spending time in prison very unlikely. Many unhoused individuals are former prisoners and often times they are unhoused because they spent time in prison. There is a reason why parents tell their kids to be good in school and behave well, otherwise they might end up in prison or on the street. Prison is one of many methods to condition complacency in the face of restaurant owners ordering their staff to clean up blood in lavatories with minimal protective clothing and workers getting screamed at for not completing concrete pours fast enough.
This doesn’t really count as much but these institution are supposed to rehabilitate individuals. Though it can be argued that locking people up for that is not strictly necessary. And rehabilitation often means becoming a “productive” member of society, not a healed one.