transcript
A picture of the Ben Affleck Smoking meme, with the caption “Me seeing people on reddit telling other people to go to lemmy.world”
Stop making good the enemy of perfect!
Anywhere but:
- lemmy[.]ml
- lemmygrad[.]ml
- lemmy[.]world
- he xbea r[.]net
I hate the communists on this platform developed by communists
I don’t hate communists. The reasons I don’t recommend those instances are:
lemmy[.]ml - Censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments
lemmygrad - see above; also defederated a lot.
lemmy[.]world - too big, has a lot of toxic people, some moderation issues
hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.
This is exactly why you should tell people leaving reddit to check it out.
Some people don’t come here to talk politics.
There are some people who may just use reddit for non-political stuff, like crafts, gaming and news from their country. Most of that stuff is on lemmy.world.We do all that too, we’re just cooler. We have DIY comms, anime comms, I run the gaming discord where we mostly just chill and play Foxhole ARMA and project zomboid.
My point is that everything is political and for people that want a nice cozy space that is vigilantly purged of reactionaries and bigots it’s a breath of fresh air from the reddit environment that carries over to a lot of the big “default” - as you call them - instances.
Shit half the posts on hexbear are silly jokes, weird special interest stuff, personal projects, or random bean posting. We are just very very militant and fairly unified when topics of politics come up and it has roots in irreverent commie shitposting so that will always be there.
hexbear does have a lot of non-political comms, but some of the more niche ones are on .world. I think .world is still far better than
Those people can literally go back to reddit and have their use experience be 100% identical
Not really. Reddit has gotten really shitty. Not just the community, the actual platform itself.
No thanks, people like that make reddit a miserable experience. Its the same here.
“boo hoo people shit on me for being reactionary”
That is all I get from this comment without further elaboration.
i’m not getting anything from your comment either, I don’t even know what you are talking about. reactionary? people shit on me?
It’s just a miserable reading experience even when I don’t interact. Hopefully blocking certain instances helps, but what makes me wary is that blocking certain people for example seems to hide the whole threads if someone in the thread is blocked.
Supporting nazi governments is frowned upon, yes
Do you honestly agree with the idea that Ukraine was a nazi country?
Was? No, the nazis are still in charge. I said government, don’t pull that shit where you make no distinction between the people and their jailers. Ukrainians? Probably mostly cool, haven’t met them. Their government? Absolutely nazis, absolutely put in place by us to do nazis shit.
I had a whole thing written about Operation GLADIO and America’s almost century-long history of doing exactly this all over the world, how the word “Tankie” comes from the time the Soviet Union stopped them from doing it to Hungary in 1956, but then I remembered a picture is worth a thousand words. Here’s several pictures:
That’s a picture of Stephan Bandera by the way, head of the OUN-B organization which participated in the Holocaust. Here he is in his in his spiffy military uniform:
Eh, times change, right? It’s not as if any recent high ranking government officials have been see-
Ah. Hm.
Well, it’s not like they’re doing hitler youth shit, right?
God damn, what the hell is going on? Is there some kind of documented, easy-to follow trail of obvious causality that I can use to make sense of this??
Of course there is, and it’s only a minute and a half long!
Okay, joking is done. Real talk, do you honestly believe the obviously bullshit narrative that Ukraine isn’t a country whose people live under the Nazi boot?
By nazi country, I meant ruled by nazis. Sorry if that was unclear.
Even if Ukraine has a “nazi problem” russia’s invasion is nothing but imperialism.
Hexbear.net defederated because of a domain problem that’s since been fixed
Although I suspect the “censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments” is just as much present there as it is in lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, and the main reason for the “censorship” is racism
No, some instances block hex.
Also, .ml’s modlog shows a clear pro-russia bias. People should oppose the U.S’s imperialism, but supporting russia (even critically) isn’t the answer. I feel like hexbear has a more diverse range of views compared to .ml or grad though.
Spesifying that you shouldn’t support Russia even critically shows that you don’t understand the meaning of “critically”
Who benefits from the extension of the conflict? Who manufactures the soon-to-be expired warheads and ammunition sold to Ukraine?
US wouldn’t cease the the siege of Iraq and Afganistan before they gained the control of the whole governing body of the country and then extending the occupation for a decade (before abandoning the puppet government to fend for itself)
If Russia ceased all operations today keeping all the area they gained throughout this war, they would have still done less harm to Ukraine than US has done in any of its conflicts
“Critical support” means support for the option that causes the least humanitarian damage
Also, .ml’s modlog shows a clear pro-russia bias. People should oppose the U.S’s imperialism, but supporting russia (even critically) isn’t the answer
Have you considered that reality supports Russia’s justifications for intervening in Ukraine
And what are those justifications?
What a weird take. Its not promoted as an app for communists even if its made by them. Decentralized should mean that noone can enforce it to be communist.
No, decentralized means the communists won’t get banned from your feed unless you block them yourself
Same point, different wording.
it’s not, you can mold the lemmy you experience perfectly to your liking, you just have to moderate it yourself, just don’t be surprised when you come across communists everywhere
Yes its the same point, you just misread my comment.
Now explain why to the masses.
- tankies
- tankies
- centralisation
- tankies
To expand:
On .ml, you’ll likely end up being banned for “bigotry” if you dare criticize certain authoritarian regimes. The mods and admins cannot handle any sort of dissent, so censorship is quite heavy there. You’ll even get banned from unrelated communities. It’s the least toxic of the “Big Three” tankie instances, but still not a great place to be. There’s also the issue of overcentralization since it’s such a large instance, as getting an unwarranted ban can block off access to a good chunk of communities.
Grad is .ml but more extremist. They’re widely defederated for good reason, as their users are pretty horrible to anyone they consider a shitlib. I can’t say much about them from personal experience as they’ve been defederated with my instance for as long as I’ve been here, but many have alts on .ml where they do engage in shitty behaviour.
Hexbear is by far the worst. Take grad, and turn the hostility up to 11. If you say the wrong thing, it may end up posted in their “dunk tank” where they’ll then proceed to harass you as a group for days or longer, even taking it to DMs. They do not federate with other instances to participate in good faith, they federate in order to push their agenda and “dismantle Western propaganda”. And by that, they actually mean flooding threads with oversized emotes and graphic pictures of pigs shitting on their own testicles when they decide to brigade. They’re also widely defederated for good reason, and most threads involving defederating with them have plenty of examples of their awful conduct outside of their instance. Many have alts on other instances to bypass said defederation though.
“I hate centralization, we should do less centralization”
posts a list of instances to avoid, 3/4 of which are actually much smaller in active users than his own, presumably just all instances he politically disagrees with
Not really.
- lemmy[.]ml - Censorship of pro-ukraine posts
- lemmygrad - see above; also defederated a lot.
- lemmy[.]world - too big, has a lot of toxic people, some moderation issues
- hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.
so that’s 3/4 that you’re saying to avoid because you personally have deemed their moderation policies objectively inferior (and judging by 1 and 2 you probably think the same about hexbear?)
sounds like they’re just instances you politically disagree with, one of which does happen to also be massive. I’m not saying redditors should come to those 4 instances, they mostly shouldn’t (grad and hexbear don’t want most of them, .ml has been trying to not be “the default instance” since forever, and world is a shithole and already massive/centralizing), but your choice of list was transparently more political than it was about centralization, why not just be honest about that?
Or are you going to pull the “moderation policies are (or should be) objective and apolitical” canard?
I never said it was about centralisation, it was about instances being recommended to newcomers. Sorry if that was unclear.
I don’t know if you realise this but we can actually see the titles of posts we’re commenting on.
The comment I was replying to said “Don’t make perfect the enemy of good!”, likely referring to getting users onto the fediverse from sites like reddit. I think recommending almost any instance but those ones is a good idea to newcomers.
Also, just because the title references centralisation, the biggest problem plaguing LW, doesn’t mean there are other reasons to avoid it.
Facts
Don’t forget:
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vegantheoryclub [.] org
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tankies
-
So like the big servers that everyone’s on, gotcha
Pretty much yeah. Spreading stuff out so there is no single point of failure is a good thing.
Here fucking here. 3 are blatantly full of Nazis and one is just Reddit.
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Agreed
I started on world and quickly began hopping.
joined on world, couldnt see piracy and the hopping began
Thank you for spreading!
I guess so, but I really think we should recommend another instance this time around.
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Yep, I wouldn’t recommend tiny ones, the medium sized ones seem to be able to scale enough.
You can always throw them into the deep end and tell them to check out hexbear
Hasn’t happened yet when I did that with Lemmy.cafe.
The small instances can take in 10s of thousands of users before being strained.
The open-source nature of Lemmy would enable great migration tools.
The devs seem opposed to letting users migrate accounts though.
The issue for moving comms has been open since last year.I haven’t looked at the Lemmy codebase but here’s my thoughts on why they don’t “just” fix this.
Unless the database is designed for easy migration from it can be a very large task to modify the database layout, as you nearly have to refactor everything.
One way to solve this is that all posts/comments/votes uses an UUID as primary key instead of auto-incrementing IDs.
Hi, so moving in AP (ActivityPub) doesn’t really work like that.
Essentially, every action (like, follow, create etc) is an
activity
, “moving” something sends a “move” activity to every follower of an actor (group, user etc), which will make them follow the new account.So moving a community is really just making everyone unsubscribe from the old on, and subscribe to the new one, set the old one as read only, and setup a redirect (“This community has moved to !newcomm@instance”). The old comm will stay, and it can be browsed.
Take a look at “nomadic identity” though, its a bit more similar to what you are talking about.
Mod actions don’t even federate properly yet, you have to have a local account to mod properly. And post pinning only works when the stars align. With all those basic features having issues, comm migration is nowhere near the top of the priority list.
I don’t really get how to get into that. How do you find instances with more than 10 people on them ? Plus like you said, I have to make a new account for every instance which is super annoying
You don’t need an account for every instance. For example, I am on lemm.ee, you are on lemmy.world, but I can reply to your comment.
Every instance shares the same content.
See I’m confused at this. I cannot login on lemm.ee. not sure what I’m doing wrong.
Think of it like email, you can send emails to anyone on any email provider, but you can’t login to gmail with your outlook info.
You can use https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy to find the smollest ones.
I don’t see the issue with recommending a generic instance, if your intend is to convert the generic user. It certainly is a better experience than saying ‘ok, so choose what you like from this list of instances’ and they don’t even know the implications or what that means.
The overcomplication of Lemmy is an issue, and this behavior tries to avoid that.
Recommending generic instances is good, but please don’t recommend that generic instance.
Eh why not, might mellow them out a little
Honestly, if they’re on reddit, they’re probably libs and that’s the closest to a default instamce. They complain enough about the leftist instances that the leftist adjecent folks will find their way eventually. It’s fine.
Idk, I’d consider myself a liberal and i find lemmy.world borderline insufferable a lot of the time
lemmy.world does not allow the use of vpn to post. vpn is basic internet hygiene. do not go to lemmy.world if you care about that, our you will not be able to post.
you can join any federated instance instead.
one day later edit: i took my information from this post of a lemmy.world admin: https://lemmy.world/comment/12079632
I was made aware that users are able to post on lemmy.world while using a vpn. maybe their stance has changed?
aside from that, try to avoid joining the biggest instance and join smaller, federated instances instead. this reduces load and avoids centralization.
vpn is basic internet hygiene
according to vpn companies
9 out 10 VPN companies recommend hiding your IP address.
lemmy.world does not allow the use of vpn to post.
That is definitely not true. I’m using one right now, and there is a VPN community at !vpn@lemmy.world.
https://lemmy.world/comment/12079632
is this resolved then? i will update my comment to correctly reflect the current situation then :)
Thanks for the link, I wasn’t aware of that discussion. The lemmy.world terms of service says:
Users are allowed to use any provided method to interact with Lemmy.World, as long as it is in good faith. VPN and/or Tor access is not explicitly disallowed, however, we reserve the right to restrict and/or limit types of access via anonymizing services to protect both our site and staff.
It looks like lemmy.world does not proactively block VPNs, but does block IP addresses that have used lemmy.world abusively, even if blocking the IPs would cause other unrelated accounts to be affected.
All I can say is that I’ve never been affected by such a block. But if I do get affected, I’ll switch to a different instance or even a different service such as Piefed and Mbin.
What do you want them to do? Select an instance at random, to spread them out?
Yeah, this is just stupid. I wish a significant amount of redditors would go to lemmy.world
I mean, what do you want to tell them to join? Something called “mander.xyz”? “sopuli.xyz”? Maybe something like sh.itjust.works, jlai.lu or yall.theatl.social? I’d feel awkward enough telling them to join “Lemmy” then linking to lemm.ee. Sending them to lemmy.ml would just be cruel.
I picked lemmy.world because it sounded the least sus
As many others did, and many others will in the future.
Referring new users to a poorly named instance is a generally bad idea. Many of our instances do look very similar to the nonsense links you’re taught you’re not supposed to not click on if you get them in an email or see them on the internet in the wild.
It is the most popular and easy to understand, I’ve never been harassed by the instance admins or mods like in other communities. (.ml .blahaj .ee)
.world is the defalt instance and I can’t find a better one to take its place
Yeah. Looking at the 'verse The other ones are for developers, Canadians, Pro-AI, Canadians again, NSFW, programming, gender diversity, techy people, Finland!, PCs/Gaming, Climate criss, Leftist (but not Liberal).
Like there’s not instances for the rest of us, so you just end up going to the General ones.
lemmy.ca is alright.
And I’m not saying the other instances shouldn’t be like they are with their weird, esoteric names. But I am saying they’re generally a poor introduction.
Personally, after having spent some time on lemmy, while I like lemm.ee I feel like I could be fine to move to mander.xyz or sh.itjust.works. If I was on lemmy.world and not lemm.ee, I might’ve done it. But I’d have to start fresh, I wouldn’t be able to move my user there. And personally, I get kind of attached to my account. I don’t really like making a new one and leaving the old one. I wouldn’t like to keep logging into two different accounts, either.
I feel like if it were feasible, it could potentially be very good to allow users to just press a “Move user to another instance” button. Might be a terrible idea, but hear me out.
The function being, I guess, to either fully move its data to another instance with their full history. Or alternatively, to effectively just remake the account with the same login besides instance, and keeping access to their user’s “legacy” history accessible from the old instance within the profile. Maybe with legacy history as a separate thing if necessary, ideally it would be displayed in the same list as native history but with a marker or something. Either solution sounds potentially messy, but maybe it could be done elegantly. I would guess the latter with the new account linking to the old account would be better, not messing with where the old comments and posts and messages and votes are stored. Maybe it could effectively be generated as just a simple separate text file to refer to, to link to the legacy part of the profile’s history from the other instance. Not sure about any of that. Maybe it would make sense to just allow one move per year.
Either way, if this could work well, it could make many users much more willing to switch to one of the smaller instances after initially joining lemmy.world. Especially if lemmy.world does something many users don’t like.
I know I’d personally prefer this kind of solution if lemm.ee were to turn into an extremist trekkie instance that started mandating “Live long and prosper, to all except Lucasfilms.” at the end of every post and top level comment. I’d want to bring my profile and history and block lists and whatever over.
I will never understand why people want to go from reddit to a place that’s just as shitty as reddit in all the same ways
No one on reddit likes reddit.com. The people there are there just for the userbase. The actual software is shit, lemmy.world has been more stable than reddit at times.
“Lemmy is great, you can choose whatever instance you want! But fuck you if you choose that one.”
No, don’t recommend that one. I don’t care if you’re on LW, its just not a great idea to recommend it to newcomers.
Well when .ee defederates from the tankies they can join the adult community
The main benefit to being on .ee is federating with nearly everyone.
It’s literally just the Lemmy arm of Reddit. Same rules, same mods, same centrist users.
I registered with blahaj first but I couldn’t. Log in after a couple of months and never found a solution.
I came to Lemmy on my own but felt forced I to .World.
There are other generalist or niche instances beyond .world
Removed by mod
Oh hey, it’s the person that conflates Communism with fascism and accuses everyone of being a bot, a sockpuppet, and/or a fascist. Again, I recommend you read Blackshirts and Reds.
I was forced to go to Lemmy after the post-inauguration bloodbath, but Ive liked it a lot, more than Reddit in many ways. I was getting really tired of the bots, puns, Russian Propganda, novelty accounts, TROLLS, etc.
OTOH, I feel like I can speak much more freely on Lemmy. Even before I got permabanned, Reddits Free Speech mission had become non-existent.
The downside of Lemmy is that some of my favorite subs don’t have an equivalent on Lemmy. For instance, the Reddit guitar subs are very active, but the few Lemmy guitar forums are nearly empty, with posts that are days, weeks, months, and even years, apart. I tried Googling “Lemmy Guitar” for ideas, and literally every link was about Motorhead.
So I welcome more quality Reddit immigrants, as long as all the Trolls stay over there.
Help build the guitar community, tell the people on reddit to come here instead. I will do the same.
I can’t, I’m permabanned. I tried getting around it several times, with new account names, but each one lasted a shorter and shorter time, as the algorithm honed in on me. My first alt lasted a few weeks, my last one was caught within an hour.
I do like the idea of building the Guitar community here at Lemmy, I’m just not familiar enough with the system to know how to do that. Do we start a new forum, or take over an existing one? Do we have just one and put EVERYTHING in there, or do we split it up between various subjects - general, lessons, performances, gear, amps, etc.?
How’d you manage to get banned?
I repeated an opinion that I’d made made times in the past without even a warning. The first time after the Inauguration, and I was permabanned, despite being a 12 year member with over 900K in karma.
I came to Lemmy, and discovered a lot of recently exiled Reddit vets with high volume posting accounts that were 10+ years old. We were the people that built Reddit over the last decade, with thousands of posts without getting banned, and suddenly ALL of us managed to say something bad enough in the same month to get permabanned.
It turned out February was a bloodbath, and an unknowm number of people were ejected, probably in the thousands. Recently we found out that Musk had been pressuring Spez, and obviously Spez capitulated, like so many other cowardly CEOs, abandoning their core Free Speech mission (which was becoming increasingly compromised anyway).
I’m still lurking over there, but the problems they were habing with puns, bots, TROLLS, Russian propaganda farmers, etc. have only gotten worse.
So now I’m at Lemmy, with a lot of other active ex-Redditors. It looks a lot like Reddit looked 12 years ago, when I started over there. I’ve seen many of the original posts that have become Reddit lore, and I’ll miss what we built, but it’s best days are definitely behind it. Now, we’ll help energize Lemmy, and grow it into its own cultural powerhouse.
For me, that includes building an active, enthusiastic, supportive, POSITIVE guitar community here.
Lmao your case sounds very similar to me except I haven’t been banned, but apparently mostly because I just lurk most of the time because reddit sucks more and more every day. The last straw was them getting rid of messages and not giving a good old.reddit alternative which made me realize they’re going to kill old reddit soon, and I refuse to use their shitty new UI. I’ve been on there for like 13 years and I feel like it’s gotten way worse way faster in the past year than it has in a long time.
I wasn’t just a lurker, I was extremely active, with over 900K in karma. I was going to try to break 1 million this year. Not only that, I was a fairly radical activist, and was rabidly anti-MAGA. Reddit has capitulated to MAGA, so now Im a political enemy.
First post on Lemmy! and oh my word… never seen such an eclectic mix of flavours of people, positions and politics in a long time.
This decentralised thing could actually be a good thing: pulls people away from bubbles and echo chambers!
Just remember to play nice :)
Welcome!
Welcome!
i said it before but lemmy hates new users
I don’t hate new users. Just, please recommend another instance to newcomers.
It’s the worst. I wish people would stop doing that.
This
Thank you for the gold kind stranger
Boop
Heckin
General NPC replies