• sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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    28 days ago

    Yeah, that’s weird.

    The reason iPhones are impractical to make in the US has nothing to do with anatomy or genetics, it’s purely labor costs. You can hire someone to work for very little and for very long in China, you can’t do that in the US. That’s it. That’s the only reason.

    • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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      28 days ago

      hire

      They’ve been known to literally lock people in their factories, and even put up suicide nets to prevent slaves from killing themselves.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      What’s important to note is all the pieces that get screwed together are still made over there…

      We can pay tariffs on all the pieces and screw them together here, but that’s going to essentially have the same tariff costs as a completed iPhone.

      Having someone screw the pieces together here would also raise costs due to labor costs. But they’re two completely different things.

      Quick edit:

      Times author is legitimately named “Trip” and started out as a sports writer before pivoting to “apple, bourbon, and beer”.

      These days it might just be AI, but if it’s a human it’s almost certainly a nepo hire…

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        28 days ago

        They could even waive the tariffs and it would still be impractical to assemble in the US. The only way it’s practical here is with near full automation, and even then it’s probably still cheaper in China.

        Labor and land are just so much cheaper there.

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          Apple spent literal decades training workers over there, and the Chinese government busted up Apple and all their workers went to competitors…

          Like, sure, someone has to assemble the screws but it didn’t take Apple 20 years of investment to just teach them to use a screwdriver. It’s skilled labor.

          Jon Stewart had some guy that wrote a book on it a week or two ago.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            28 days ago

            There’s some skilled labor, sure, but most of it is processes, and those can be replicated elsewhere. Apple brought the processes and refined them with local labor. But none of it is so special that it can’t be replicated elsewhere in a couple years (assuming facilities exist).

            Look at phone repair, you can go to any mall and a teenager can disassemble and reassemble your phone with only a month or so of training. Making that process efficient is the hard part, and that only requires a few skilled jobs in a factory of thousands. The vast majority of jobs in assembly are pretty unskilled.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              28 days ago

              and those can be replicated elsewhere

              Apple isn’t in the process of spending billions over decades to train people just to install screws…

              Like, fuck Apple, I’ve never owned a single Apple product. But they wouldn’t have spent that much for so long to train people for unskilled labor.

              Quick edit:

              Apple in China[1] is a 2025 book by Patrick McGee[2][3][4] (Financial Times reporter[5] from 2013 to 2023[6]), about how Apple Inc. invested in China in order to build iPhones and other technology, and by doing so helped China become more competitive. In the book, McGee says that under Tim Cook Apple invested $275 billion over five years from 2016. McGee compares this to the Marshall Plan as this is in excess of other corporate spending. McGee says the Marshall Plan was about half Apple’s investment, in real terms.

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_in_China

              275,000,000,000 over five years…

              That’s 55 billion a year, for five years straight.

              It doesn’t cost that much to train someone to put a screw in

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                27 days ago

                Sure, but it does cost that much to build a suite of factories complete w/ automation and whatnot. Buildings are expensive, especially high tech ones, but that doesn’t mean the labor involved is particularly high skill. Components, processes, software, etc are still largely designed by highly skilled workers in western countries.

                Yes, there are some skilled jobs there, but the ratio is much lower for the employees in China than domestically.

                • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                  27 days ago

                  Yes, there are some skilled jobs there, but the ratio is much lower for the employees in China than domestically.

                  You can just keep repeating the same thing over and over again despite it being wrong…

                  Doesn’t make it true tho, just makes other people eventually stop responding

    • iopq@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Chinese wages are not actually that low. In Beijing minimum wage is ¥26.4 which is $3.66

      US federal minimum wage is $7.25

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        27 days ago

        Yet for these types of jobs, nobody gets paid minimum wage, even $15/hr is probably low. What is the typical Chinese employee making for this type of work?

        • iopq@lemmy.world
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          27 days ago

          Also several times the minimum wage. The minimum wage jobs are the do nothing jobs like door man.

          The fact is, the difference is in concentration. You have millions of workers in Shenzhen all in the same area doing similar jobs. It makes it easy to ask one factory to manufacture a thing and the one next door to assemble it.

    • orclev@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      Well it’s also about supply chains. All the components are also made in China so you’d end up ordering the parts and then having to wait a month or more for them to be shipped to the US. If you want to avoid delays that means maintaining a significant stockpile of parts in the US that you may or may not ever actually use.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        27 days ago

        Sure, but I don’t think supply chains are the critical factor here. You don’t necessarily need local supply if you can break up delivery into small enough chunks, so whether it takes a day or a month to get a part isn’t important once the flow is going smoothly. You only need local supply if there’s a significant risk of disruption/delays.

        Yes, it’s probably a bit cheaper to assemble things closer to where they’re produced, but I still think labor costs are the determining factor. US workers expect higher pay, more PTO, less hours worked per week, and more benefits, so even if all the parts were shipped in perfectly consistently, it would still be significantly more expensive to assemble iPhones in the US vs in China.