Left Party MP Cansin Köktürk was thrown out of a German parliament plenary chamber on Wednesday for wearing a t-shirt with the word “Palestine” printed on it, a move deemed a political statement by the parliamentary leadership.

Bundestag President Julia Klöckner intervened during the session, reminding MPs that political messages on clothing are not permitted in the chamber.

While the Bundestag does not have a detailed dress code, its rules require MPs and visitors to dress “in keeping with the prestige” of the institution. Enforcement of this standard is left to the discretion of the session chair.

    • Quittenbrot@feddit.org
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      19 days ago

      Not with their clothes, though. The political debate in the Bundestag is conducted through words and to be fair, that seems like a reasonable idea.

      • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
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        19 days ago

        AfD members of parliament are routinely wearing German flag pins, which carries a pretty obvious message coming from a far right party.

  • Melchior@feddit.org
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    19 days ago

    Just to say it, but both the far right AFD and tankie BSW got into trouble for holding up signs in the Bundestag. Allowing t-shirts with prints would be such an obvious loophole around that.

    • adr1an@programming.devM
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      18 days ago

      No prints allowed? Like, at all? Else, next time they should wear one with just a watermelon.

      Or… Even better, just go in and have a watermelon slice with you, in a tupper. Open it and have it there on the table :)

  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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    19 days ago

    While the Bundestag does not have a detailed dress code, its rules require MPs and visitors to dress “in keeping with the prestige” of the institution.

    So, there is no actual rule that she actually broke, unless we interpret the word “Palestine” to be not in keeping with the prestige of the Budestag. Are other country names or geographical regions also not in keeping with the prestige of the Bundestag? Like, when I visit can I not wear a shirt that says “Greece” on it? Or that says “Quebec” or “Antarctica”? Or is this is a special rule for country names that butthurt Germany’s “staatsraison”?

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      18 days ago

      No political statements with clothing is established precedent and wearing a Palestine shirt today is a political statement. Greece? Currently, not really, no, don’t see it. During the Greek debt crisis? Yes it would’ve been.

      She’s free to make a pro-Palestine speech, that’s how political statements are supposed to be done in parliament. Occasionally there’s stunts like these, and they always have the same outcome: A small amount of extra spotlight, then everyone forgets about it.

    • Allemaniac@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      if you, a tourist, would wear written clothing, nothing happens. It is for members of parliament that they can be expelled. Although we often times see politians dressed in light blue and yellow, to show solidarity with Ukraine. So why not for Palestine? That would be aNtisEmiTiSm

  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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    19 days ago

    If she wore a Ukraine shirt (which would be based) or even an Israel shirt (which would not be based), it would have been handled differently. Hell apparently there is a history of members wearing soccer team shirts with no problems.

    “The problem isn’t the protests, it’s what they’re protesting.” Macklemore

  • Theobroma@feddit.org
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    19 days ago

    "Doch es sind nicht immer Linke, Grüne und Sozialdemokraten, die die Kleiderordnung offen interpretieren. Die heutige Staatsministerin für Raumfahrt Dorothee Bär (CSU) trug 2015 unter ihrem Blazer ein Trikot des FC Bayern München, samt Logo der Telekom. Hier kam der Protest von links.

    Die Beispiele zeigen: Die Würde des Hauses unterliegt auch dem Zeitgeist. Und der scheint – zumindest unter der Bundestagspräsidentin Klöckner – wieder konservativer zu werden. "

  • ikidd@lemmy.world
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    18 days ago

    Should have had a second person wearing an Israel shirt, and see who gets kicked out.

  • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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    19 days ago

    PoLiTiCaL sTaTeMeNt

    I thought about spelling this onomatopoeically as it would sound with Bibi’s dick in their mouth but I’m lazy

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    19 days ago

    By, as a sitting elected representative of actual German voters, being expelled from the German Parliament for merely wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine in it and nothing else, Cansin just neatly managed to prove that Germany is not a Democracy anymore.

    Removing a sitting representative of voters, even if temporarily, from Parliament for any reason is already fishy as hell, removing one for merely wearing a T-shirt with the name of what Germany recognizes as a region (and most of the World recognizes as a country) is outright antidemocratic - they literally kicked out a politician from Parliament for making a political statement that others in Parliament did not like, the very antithesis of Democracy.

    This is genuinely worrisome, especially given what Germany did last time they were going down this very same route of ditching Democratic Rules and Values using overtly racial motovations.

    • tomi000@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      So you wouldnt want AfD representatives removed if they wore Ye shirts with “indian peace symbols”? This is simply enforcing the rules, theres no deep conspiracy or fascism behind it.

      • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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        19 days ago

        Oh, so now “Palestine” is the same level of offensive as a swastika?

        Not to mention that a swastika is already banned in Germany, so your question is by definition pointless.

        • tomi000@lemmy.world
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          18 days ago

          It is not the same, which I never claimed. Its just another example. Take whatever example you want. A russian flag, “Heil Kim Jong Un”, “free Israel”, whatever. They would all be treated like this because they break a rule thats been there forever. Its not arbitrary and definitely not anti-left. When youre robbing a bank, it doesnt matter if the bank is run by a Nazi or if you distribute the money among the poor. You will go to jail.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        19 days ago

        Are you seriously equating a swastika to the word “Palestine”???!

        Also the whole “it’s the rules” justifying anti-Democratic actions is quite an old tradition in Germany that was used heavilly during a dark, dark part of German history, so one would expect extra alarm about “rules” there for things like silencing politicians in Parliament, rather than claiming “it’s the rules” - just like they did in the “good old days” - to justify anti-Democratic measures.

        If you are German, your entire take on the whole subject of making an equivalence between the word “Palestine” and a swastika and an “appeal to the rules” to justify silencing politicians just like in Germany’s “good old days”, just emphasises my point about the alarming slide towards authoritarianism and authoritarian thinking in Germany.

        • tomi000@lemmy.world
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          18 days ago

          Im definitely not equating it, I was giving an example. The rule is no political messages on clothing, this goes for the left and the right. Just because being left is morally better than being a fascist doesnt mean rules dont matter anymore.

          What the fuck is anti-democratic about enforcing a rule thats been clear to everyone? Dont get riled up by ragebait, this is not what you seem to think it is.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            18 days ago

            The barrier for expelling an elected representative of voters from the actual Parliament in a Democracy should be far, far higher than their choice of clothing.

            It’s not by chance that authoritarian regimes which try and simulate Democracy by having a Parliament will use such “arbitrarily enforced broad rules on irrelevant things” to selectively kick out elected representatives of voters, often as a means to exclude them from certain votes.

            (Literally from the article: “its rules require MPs and visitors to dress ‘in keeping with the prestige’ of the institution” and “Enforcement of this standard is left to the discretion of the session chair”, so it’s exactly the kind of overbroad arbitrarily enforced rule that is perfect for the type of subversion of the political process that Authoritarian regimes so love).

            So yeah, kicking out from Parliament an elected representative of voters for something which isn’t even breaking the Law (unlike your curiously chosen “swastika” example), is anti-Democratic - this is not a patron breaking the dress rules in some posh restaurant, it’s somebody who represents hundreds of thousands of Germans in the very Parliament were they have been tasked to represent them.

            This together with other things such as forbidding the comparison of the actions of the nation state of Israel with those of Nazi Germany (outright Censorship) or the attempt by the authorities to kick out from Germany without a court order, much less a criminal conviction, non-German citizens for attending pro-Palestine demonstrations (avoidance of the Rule Of Law), adds up to a strong trend towards Authoritarianism.

            Germany might not be Fascist yet, but by now it’s already less Democratic than most of Europe and, more alarming, keeps on moving away from Democratic practices and values.

            Considering Germany’s past, one would expect a tendency to try and be as Democratic as possible, not using rules which are totally irrelevant for the political process (the wearing of a t-shirt with the word “Palestine” does not in any way form or shape impede the operation of the Parliament) to subvert the operation within the political process of those holding certain opinions, but not others

            That then people come out claiming “it’s the rules” as a valid reason to remove an elected representative of voters from Parliament in a country were back in Nazi times “it’s the rules” was the most used excuse by Nazis and their supporters for the various actions against minorities, including some of the worst, is just mind boggling.

            • tomi000@lemmy.world
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              18 days ago

              She knew she was going to be expelled beforehand and actively decided to wear the shirt anyway. It was her decision, not someone else making up some new arbitrary rule to expell her. You would definitely not defend a far-right politician with an “abortion is murder” shirt in the same situation. Youre simply biased. Not enforcing it after it becomes evident would be undemocratic period.

              Im really glad the rule was enforced, otherwise tomorrow the whole AfD fraction would show up with far-right rhetoric shirts and either prove that rules in the parliament dont matter or get criticized and use it to position themselves as the victims like always. Whats the use in that?

              Germany might not be Fascist yet, but by now it’s already less Democratic than most of Europe

              You have literally no idea what youre talking about. Why am I even wasting my time.

              • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                18 days ago

                It doesn’t matter that she knew: she brought to everybody’s attention that in Germany there’s an arbitrarily enforced rule to kick out from Parliament the representatives of voters and she showed how it gets used against those representatives that have certain opinions, but not others.

                Of course you’re happy: you’ve been repeating “it’s the rules”, plus think it’s good because it can be used against people whose politics you don’t like, and it’s just as NAZI-supporters did back in the “good old days” and you probably don’t even realize that you’re using the same style of argument as they did.

                I come from a country were our exit from Fascism was “only” 50 years ago, and really hope that in 25 years’ time we don’t end up like Germany, were Democracy is so degraded that people who think themselves “democrats” parrot the very same style of “arguments” as the Fascist did whilst thinking that it’s fine when they do it, just not when others do it.

                • tomi000@lemmy.world
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                  18 days ago

                  and she showed how it gets used against those representatives that have certain opinions, but not others.

                  Thats exactly not what she showed, because it is enforced against everyone equally. The others just decided to follow the rule. I dont even believe she would have wanted to stay, she was obviously provoking it. She probably wanted to get some attention on the topic, get people to talk about it even if it meant being thrown out. It was her decision and she knew the consequences and she obviously decided it was worth it. Maybe its a good thing overall. But pretending that enforcing the rule itself was wrong is just hypocrisy.

                  Look, I know its hard to accept that not everything is a conspiracy to keep the left small. Playing the victim is the far-rights tactic and we dont need to drop to their level, its pathetic.

                  Everything youve been saying is completely biased and I think you know that by now but are still grasping at hypocritical straws. Enforcing rules that were set in place for keeping order in the parliament is not “anti-democratic”, how the fuck do you even come up with this bs.

                  By the way, did you know Nazis drink water and breathe air? You should stop doing that, youre just repeating their behavior.

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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    19 days ago

    Uh… This person’s whole job is to make political statements.

    While the Bundestag does not have a detailed dress code, its rules require MPs and visitors to dress “in keeping with the prestige” of the institution.

    Whoever put this rule on the books needs to be slapped across the face.

    • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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      19 days ago

      Palestine has repeatedly called for the extermination of all Jews

      I can make shit up too, check it out: “giraffes are purple”

      My bullshit at least is not enabling genocide.

        • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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          19 days ago

          Hamas is not Palestine and the ADL is a genocide enabling organization that harbours deep anti-Palestinian racism. Got any better arguments to support your bigoted writings?

          • Meltdown@lemmy.world
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            19 days ago

            Lmao, Jesus Christ. I can lead a horse to water, but I can’t make it drink.

            • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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              18 days ago

              Got it. You actually don’t have any better arguments to support your bigoted writings.

              • Meltdown@lemmy.world
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                18 days ago

                Yeah, I guess verbatim quotations from Palestinian leadership isn’t enough to establish what they think. Too bad I don’t have your standards of just applying feelings without regard for the facts; you’re wise not to let logic or human decency stand in the way of your antisemitism, you might accidentally develop some self awareness

                • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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                  18 days ago

                  You are showing how Hamas are antisemitic. You are then elevating Hamas to all of Palestine. That’s neither net logic or human decency, that’s bait-and-switch.

                  But you know, we can play this game. Are you are ready to accept statements of Israeli top officials (from the freaking President, to the Prime Minister and his Ministers, to MKs and further down) as Israeli policy to exterminate Palestinians? Or is nuance only allowed for Israel and never allowed for Palestinians? Or is it that if we allow equal amounts of nuance to both sides, then that is antisemitism?