We have decided some brain quirks are disorders (and get accommodations, as is compassionate), whilst others are flaws (and get slurs). But no one picks their hardware. You cannot earn a better prefrontal cortex or deserve a calmer amygdala. Nor does one get to pick the environment they are born in, which will inform their choices later in life. Even the capacity to “learn better” is a roll of the dice, some brains start the race with sprinting shoes, others with lead weights.
So when we call someone stupid, lazy or insane we are not describing a choice, but simply announcing which kinds of unlucky we’ve decided are worthy of scorn.
I’m not looking in their file and saying “ahh yea it says you have the stupid. I guess I’m calling you stupid.”
It seems like every single person these days is neurodivergent so I just treat them normal. I guess thats normalising it.
When we call people stupid/lazy we aren’t describing them as a person its usually describing their behaviour or actions in the moment. If an “normal” person doesnt want to get out of bed thats lazy. If an adhd person doesnt want to get out of bed thats still lazy.
There is genuinely a prevailing theory which basically asserts that the genes that make us neurodivergent are uniquely human, that neurodivergence doesn’t exist in other species, etc.
Sci show did a little video on it the other day. Better info here than what I know, undoubtedly. Sci show is well vetted content. Im some guy laying in his bed avoiding the start of his day.
Interesting I’ll check that out. Also I’m some guy laying in bed avoiding the end of my day
Sry, but afaik there are some flaws with this hypothesis. Neurodivergence is no defined Illness but a catch-all-term for deviations from the norm. The thing with normality is, nobody really wants to be a normalo, and only very little people fit there. Everyone has his deviations. Neurodivergence refers to mental deviations from the (statistical) norm.
Whether you Like it or not, Person A with schizophrenia and Person B with depression only have in common that they both suffer from a ICD-defined Illness. That aside, theres not much in common between the two.
Calling the ability to be mentally ill, a defining trait of humanity is kind of strange. That would make normal people less human?
I think ‘normal’ needs to be interpreted in evolutionary context. What population traits and prevalence helped with thousands of generations? Not what traits helped individuals in the last handful of generations of modern lifestyle.
But anyone can fuck right off if they try to stop me swearing at them for doing dumb shit. Or more likely, I’ll be the one to fuck right off and minimize my exposure to them - since many of them likely have uncontestable social or economic power over me.
Deviation from the norm of course is (afaik) the main driver of evolution. The chaotic approach. Trying out gene variations and sometimes stumbling upon a advantageous evolutionary trait. Is this about right? Because of their diversity humankind was able to adapt to changing environmental conditions. Diversity is a survival trait of humankind. At least it was for a long time. I am not sure how much this is true in the modern world
I get what you saying, but do you really really REALLY want us to sympathise Trump supporter?
I don’t think OP is suggesting we sympathize with the ideology or the harm it causes. There is a vital distinction between empathy as an alignment and empathy as a diagnostic tool.
Understanding the cognitive or mental health mechanics that lead to radicalization isn’t about giving someone a ‘pass.’ It’s about having the clarity to see the situation for what it is. If we don’t understand the ‘why’ behind how people are manipulated, we can’t effectively dismantle the systems that recruit them.
True compassion in a political sense isn’t about being ‘nice’ to someone spouting hate; it’s about having the clarity to address the root cause of the behavior rather than just reacting to the symptoms with more hate. It’s possible to hold a boundary against someone’s actions while still being mindful of the human vulnerabilities that landed them there.
I get what you’re saying, but it’s quite difficult when people are constantly doing so many stupid, stupid things.
Yeah exactly, the mentioned words like ‘stupid’ or ‘lazy’ aren’t exclusive to describing neurodivergency at all. In fact I’d argue that’s a tiny minority of their use.
How do you know? How can you be so certain in your judgment, and declare that another’s “stupidity” or “laziness” is not the shadow of a mind wired differently? Can you see the gears turning askew?
What is stupidity to your mind? What is laziness? If they were born stupid, if they were raised without care, would you fault them? When did Gods descent from heavens and bestow you with the wisdom to always do what is right? Why may not all have this privilege?
If you are wrong, if that “laziness” is exhaustion, that “stupidity” a misfiring synapse: then you’re not just cruel, you are part of the problem.
Did you accidentally reply to the wrong post? I said something about word use and language, not about judgement and observations or decisions.
How can you be even 1% certain that these words are being used to refer to neurodivergent people? You cannot, at all. Not even 1%.
If I am wrong, the result is that everyone gets treated with more kindness.
If you are wrong, people who cannot help themselves get treated with cruelty.
If you are wrong, billions of people police their language for absolutely no reason and have to figure out new ways to express an identical concept. And they will. And this time it might even have worse baggage.
If I am wrong, all humans who ever existed talk wrong, but won’t change for you anyway.
I command not for policing of language. I put forth the request for people to examine if shaming and name calling impacts behavior towards a more desirable outcome.
(Spoilers: It does not)
So you state directly that essentially all insults are hateful toward neuro atypical people, and that’s not policing language?
It’s 100% policing language and basically claiming standard insults to be bigotry of some level. Obviously, insults don’t fix anything but they are a basic part of human language. Anything you substitute for them can be compared to someone with a disability of some kind and there is no end to self censorship in the world you are asking for. It literally helps nothing even if you manage to ban these words, and also, you would never be able to manage banning them.
I think in most cases people are using stupid to describe the action or thing a person is doing and not the person themselves, people are doing stupid stuff all the time, it’s both bad and good of course, because often times the stupid things can be delightful as well. I guess it’s just a part of being human but it’s so very frustrating that we rely on some of those people to vote when they have chose to not take life seriously or think about the consequences for other people.
Surely bonhoeffer would want the word stupid to stay in the vocabulary.
He contends that Christians have relied so much on Christ’s forgiveness that they do not challenge themselves enough in actually following his word to their best ability, instead relying on God’s grace to save them when they fall.
Whoa that guy nailed it.
I’m not one to call people names with the intention of hurting their feelings, and I don’t even believe in free will to begin with. But if I were to call someone an idiot, it wouldn’t come from the assumption that they actively choose to be one or that they could choose otherwise. No, they’re helplessly an idiot - and I’m just making a factual statement about the world.
This is why I try to be mindful of using those words. They’re really stuck in there but I understand that it would be hypocritical of me to call for understanding towards mental health and cognitive issues and then fault people for not having the cognitive capacity I think they “should” have.
I definitely fail frequently because I get angry when people spout total nonsense, even hateful stuff. I try not to let that get the better of me though.
Unless there’s some Tourette syndrome going on I don’t see why anyone should have to tolerate hateful speech.
There’s a difference between drawing a boundary and insulting others.
Ah, first world boredom.
I hate to say it but those words, especially said by someone else to describe a person they refuse to empathize with, I take it with a grain of salt.
Stupid & insane can mean not by choice and as we’ve seen in the case of politics, it can also be a choice, or more like very stupid and insane decisions.
That said it can also be words used by a shitty society meant to extract as much “value” from everything as possible and sees people as a commodity to be used up and discarded.
So every asshole with a LinkedIn calling people stupid, lazy or insane has me wondering if they’re not the ones who are so unaware they call anything that questions the status quo sTuPiD, or refusing to follow others blindly and just do what their told, LaZy.
If those who refuse to participate in this assbackwards “community” we’ve created are iNsAnE.
Add to the list:
Asshole, cretin, piece of shit, maniac, psychopath, pedophile, pervert, jerk, narcissist, self-centered prick, dickhead, douchebag, and incel.
There’s probably some history behind why people act the way they do. Maybe they were molested as a child, so that’s why they find sex with kids appealing.
Society is confused and their issue is that lazy stupid and crazy people are using the label neurodivergent to offset their deficiencies, taken away actual help from true neurodivergent people.
Stupid, idiot, crazy, and lazy(?) have not been used for mental health long enough that their meaning has diverged significantly enough that they are no longer comparable to words like retard.
You can be autistic, ADHD, have some horrible upbringing, have some other genetic thing… you can have any of those things, but you’re still accountable for your actions.
Knowing that someone has those things absolutely helps increase empathy and understanding and assist them with those things.
But a killer is still a killer, even if they did it while suffering with other issues.
Accountability? Yes, accountability is good. It’s proper and necessary to address harmful actions and ensure steps are taken to prevent recurrence. This is entirely possible, and likely more effective, without resorting to insult.
Insults are just punitive justice in a social context: a counterproductive way to discharge outrage rather than foster change. It is to temporarily soothe the egoic zealot lurking within the hearts of all. The research is clear: whether in criminal justice or interpersonal conflict, rehabilitative approaches (clear boundaries, restorative dialogue, support) reduce harm more effectively than punishment alone.
To believe that hate may be remedied with further hate is to mistake fire for water.
okay, idiot
Noone calls anyone stupid, lazy or insane in an attempt to accurately describe them. They are all insults used on normal AND neurodivergent people or to describe “bad” behavior.
Also, occasionally I might make a stupid choice. And I know it is harder for me to make the right choice because of how my brain is wired, but it is still objectively the stupid choice and I knowingly show stupid behavior. Although I might have compassion for myself because of my neurodivergence, it doesn’t change the fact that my behavior is stupid.
Oh no, some stupidity is definitely a choice and deserves to be called out as such.
Also, I don’t think insane is always used as scorn. Just a description.
