The American side deliberately orchestrated the confrontation during President Volodymyr Zelensky’s visit to the White House, Friedrich Merz, the head of Germany’s Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and the likely chancellor, said on March 3.
“It was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelensky, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office,” Merz said at a press conference in Hamburg.
The visit was expected to mark the signing of a long-debated agreement between Ukraine and the U.S. on jointly developing Ukraine’s mineral resources.
I want to point out that a very small fraction of the US deliberately did this. Like less than 100 out of 300M. Most of us, and when I say most, I mean nearly ALL of US citizens, and more, are horrified.
deleted by creator
Some 60% of Americans feel that what Zelenskyy said was ‘offensive’.
We’re fucked on a societal level.
Where do those numbers come from? I can’t find any source.
But I did find that 46% think no one won the exchange, perhaps unsurprisingly strongly split along party lines https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5173356-trump-zelensky-meeting-poll/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/ukraine-russia-support-poll
The US is a representative democracy, and those were its chosen representatives. Sorry, but you can’t collectively vote Trump into office and then immediately go “woah, we have nothing to do with any of this!” When he turns out to be exactly what everyone expected him to be.
… for the second time.
It’s actually looking pretty likely that they didn’t actually win. How very odd that Musk is suddenly buddy buddy with Trump, when he oh so very coincidentally has a team of programmer man children who have a number of proof of concept examples for invisibly changing votes on voting machines.
Do you have any sources I can read up on? This is the first I hear of this.
https://www.newsweek.com/2024-election-rigged-donald-trump-elon-musk-2019482 https://apnews.com/article/voting-machines-voting-custodio-elections-philadelphia-f8a6453dc9e211ef20e9412d003511b1 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/voting-experts-warn-of-serious-threats-for-2024-from-election-equipment-software-breaches https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/online-vulnerable-experts-find-nearly-three-dozen-u-s-voting-n1112436
etc etc. There’s a lot of stuff parroting the company line of ‘Oh, well starlink couldn’t have done anything to change the vote, these machines aren’t online!’
Except we already know they’re vulnerable, we already know that if you get into one of the machines, you can spread the malicious to code to offline machines, we know that secure USBs and drives WERE stolen and modified, we know they’re online despite countless claims they aren’t, we know they were going through starlink, and (while i was no longer able to find proof of it, because they went through and scrubbed their resumes, work history, online presence) last I saw at least one of the DOGE team goons was part of a research group for voting machines. Admittedly, I can no longer find the proof of that, so you may take that as you wish.
Fact is though, computer and security scientists have been desperately crying out for years that these machines are compromised in ways that do not get caught by standard checks.
(sorry for the copy paste, but yeah. This isn’t even touching the literal known billions spent on voter suppression, gerrymandering, advertising, concerted media sanewashing, etc etc.)
I wanted to get back to you on this to thank you for the sources. Much appreciated.
No problem!
It’s your country, your attempt at a democratic system and your mess to deal with internally. That it’s a fundamentally broken system you have over there has been known (and in some cases mathematically proven) for a long time now. Personally, I’m getting tired of the ”Not all americans”-stuff. It kinda worked the first time around, but you had four years to deal with him peacefully through your legal system, demonstrations, manifestations and public pressure. He got reelected and there was a peaceful transition of power, possibly the last.
Enough people voted for him. The margins weren’t even that thin. You are now represented by President Orange in your international affairs and force projection. We can’t really help you that much either, as you have positioned yourselves as a dominant global power, with economical, soft and hard power.
My entirely unqualified guess - we’ll start accepting political refugees from the US, fearing for their lives, fairly soon. I’m guessing LGBTQ+, some ethnicities, some scientists and some public servants are in the danger zone. Stop being ”horrified” and start being ”absolutely fucking terrified”.
In short, go deal with your carrot man, we can’t do it for you. We can hopefully provide some refuge. But we can only deal with you as a nation, represented by Trump. Sorry.
With the growing anti-intellectualism in the US, scientists and would be stem would have to go to other countries for their research opportunities, it’s already bad that you have to chase grant money in the US for research, and there is very little support for undergrads to become scientist in general, other than “hope you can find wet lab work somewhere”.
Yeah, American research is absolutely screwed.