Nooo poor Hitler :(

Your takeaway from WWII is that the guy shoving the kids into the gas chambers should not be condemned? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I still don’t really understand what you mean. What does “it” refer to? And what are nice normal countries?

I’m not sure I understand what you mean. To be clear about my own position in this:

1. Chanting death to the idf is, to me, morally equivalent to chanting death to the SS. Both are ok, even though the SS had forced conscription.

2. Forced conscription is bad, but not really on topic.

Sure, but that’s a whole different convo from finding “your honor, I had to murder the 5 year old; the alternative was a couple of months in prison and flipping burgers for the rest of my life” at all agreeable.

So this is pretty much exactly the line of reasoning that the nazis used to defend their participation in the holocaust. It wasn’t convincing then, and no, it isn’t convincing for the current genocide either.

Love that the “just following orders” defense is making a comeback. Just as valid today as during the Nuremberg trials.

Between this and USAID I can’t say I’m unhappy about it. Of course dismantling imperialism is a good thing, but I also don’t understand. The republicans should be all about illegal invasions, bombing civilians, and installing puppet dictators, so they should love USAID and NATO, yet here we are. Is this just incompetence?

The user experience of GrapheneOS is basically the same as vanilla Android, except that you have more control (you can uninstall google apps, for example), but at the cost of a small minority of apps (banking ones, for example) not working (out of the box, sometimes at all). My banking app works, and a quick google search will tell you if yours does too. If your old pixel is not too old (4 is no longer supported, 8 definitely is, not sure abt in between), you should give it a go. I think you’ll see it’s not as big of a step as you maybe currently imagine.

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I think you stronly underestimate how bad genocide is. Are you a history buff? In the 20th century there was this guy called Hitler. He became the personification of evil because he committed genocide. That’s where Israel is at. Iran, as far as I know, is not committing a genocide.

Ah, sorry a lot of folks here are getting a bit wacky with apologia, and I could see them actually putting forward the nobel peace price as an argument for Obama not being a war criminal, so I did take it a bit too seriously. Poe’s law I guess. My apologies!

That said, he is a war criminal though, and I feel like you’re cherry picking little bits out of all the presidencies to confirm your point.

Here’s an example in the other direction, maybe it’ll help you see how unconvincing an argument you’re making:

• Clinton: illegal bombing of Yugoslavia, sanctions in Iraq that have been estimated to kill 500k children.
• Obama accelerated the drone program, killing 10s of thousands of Afghanis. Under his leadership, and entire wedding party was murdered in Yemen. Pledged 3.8 billion dollars a year for a decade in military aid to the apartheid ethnostate Israel as they were regularly bombing the Gaza strip. Pledged not to persecute the CIA operarives who carried out the torture of uncharged civilians.
• Trump withdrew from Afghanistan.
• Biden sent 17.9 billion dollars in nilitary aid to Israel as they were carrying out the genocide in Gaza. Bombed Syria.

You’ll note that I omitted Bush. He was really bad. Like, Hitler bad. Not a redeeming quality about him.

At any rate the point is that every single president since Eisenhower, every single one, no exceptions, has been a war criminal, and pretending that any one of them was pro peace is a joke.

Obama fixed things by making a treaty with Iran, and got the Nobel Peace Prize (though not in that order which was a bit weird, but whatever)

I don’t understand how anyone could be so blatant about their own mental gymnastics.

Oh gosh oh wow good find, you should pass those on to the IAEA and NSA and so on because I guess they missed this when they assessed that Iran hasn’t tried to build nuclear weapons since 2003. Fucking moron.

They ARE trying for nukes

What do you know that the IAEA, the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, and the rest of the entire American intelligence community don’t? What an unbelievably arrogant way to fall for the exact same lie that they used for the illegal invasion of Iraq and all the war crimes that ensued.

No Iran definitely has the moral high ground, by a fair margin. Israel has been committing a genocide, as well as running a full on apartheid ethnostate, if you didn’t know. But even if we ignore that, the IAEA as wel as the American intelligence community (think NSA, CIA and so on) have both assessed, as recently as a week ago, that Iran has not attempted to build nuclear weapons since 2003. Iran is being bombed, illegally, based on a lie. That’s high ground enough for me.

Fits right in with Obama, lord of drones.

It’s not perfect, but capitalism is the best system we’ve got. It is only through competition on the free market that we would arrive at a space program this efficient and innovative. Imagine if the government tried to do this! They would’ve blown up a 100 rockets by now with nothing to show for it, and it would’ve cost tax payers billions of dollars. The innovation of SpaceX is humanity at it’s finest. For thousands of years we’ve looked up at the sky, and wondered what’s there, and now, thanks to the engineering chops of Elon Musk, it is within our grasp. Imagine that, sending a person to space. Maybe someday we’ll even be able to put someone on the moon!

Don’t care if yanks go get blown up in the Middle East. It’s all in service of enriching Halliburton and the military industrial complex. Yawn. It is 2003 again?

The last time they did this, a million Iraqis died.

Ukraine gave up their nukes, look what happened to them. Libya gave their nuclear weapons program up, and look at them today. North Korea didn’t, and they’re still standing, for better or for worse. Iraq was accused of having nukes, but didn’t have them, and got destroyed. Seems that if you want any semblance of sovereignty outside of NATO, you better have some nukes.

So for any nations reading along I’ll summarize the basic conclusions:

1. Get nukes
2. If you have nukes, do not give them up
3. If you’re accused of having nukes, drop everything and get nukes asap

Do you think Israel would be bombing Iran if they had nukes?