Nuclear power: provides stable power year round, then has one unplanned interruption to power production in 44 years.
“Look! Nuclear so bad, it doesn’t work!”
Renewables: has interruptions to power production literally every day.
“This is great! I can’t turn my lights on half the time and got no heating at winter, but its great!”
How are you people thinking? I get nuclear power is more expensive, but it is the only reliable carbon dioxide-free power source during winter and nights and it always will be. We clearly need both.
I’m a firm believer in nuclear, but I think that’s a garbage argument against renewable since we have batteries, and other means of energy storage like reservoirs. And now China is lifting a building and dropping it for power. The US is introducing batteries that last 24 hours for data center use.
Honestly, the energy storage sector is interesting to watch right now. There are seemingly endlessly researched designs for energy storage that have never made it to market. But now all of a sudden when data centers are realizing there’s not enough power on the grid, now they’re hitting market. To an extent, I get supply and demand. But the energy storage infrastructure hitting the market now isn’t from recent ground breaking innovations. This shit could have been implemented years ago.
I also have my eyes on energy storage, but it isn’t viable for many decades, if ever. There is no production in large scales enough to supply enough storage for even a fraction of what is needed. Many of these amazing designs are still in lab or demonstration stage and at best at low scale production. They will not be in large scale production for years or a decade.
It would take several years of current battery production rate to have enough storage for Europe and they aren’t made in Europe but largely in China who will use it for themselves.
There won’t be enough production capacity of any type of energy storage for many decades, even if we took a design now and started scaling up like crazy. It isn’t a matter of technology, but of scale and production capacity.
Then you have the added problem of the fact that northern and central Europe has next to no sun during half the year. You can store some from wind, but you’d need an unimaginable amount of energy storage to cover for the long periods of dunkelflaute.
Nuclear can do this just fine. Nuclear that can be scaled up during winter and then turned down during summer will be an essential part of a stable grid for many decades to come. Energy storage will mean less nuclear is required, but we don’t have energy storage tech to charge up entire countries worth of energy during summer to be used in winter. There isn’t enough by far.
I look forward to what is coming regarding energy storage, but it is still just ideas and testing and what is in production is too expensive and in far to low production. We have to be realistic and use what we have now, not in 20 years. We cannot keep burning fossil fuels to wait for new energy storage solutions that MIGHT become available at some point and whose production volumes will take a decade or two to scale up once and if they get out of the lab.
I’m American, I dont know shit about geography, but I think Germany is central to northern Europe.
Germany’s peak solar time is the summer, and their peak wind time is winter. Fascinating. Do you think the people in charge of the grid know this? Maybe this could be leveraged to reduce the energy storage needs for solar power during the winter???
As someone who closely follows the energy storage market, you should know that lithium-ion battery production capacity is expected to reach 7TWh/year by 2030, from 2022’s 2TWh/year. Why? Demand, from all the fucking electric vehicles because we’re going to run out of fossil fuels soon. Not technological advances.
Similarly, iron air batteries were tested by Westinghouse in the 70s, and are currently being brought to market. As far as I can tell, there has been little improvements to the technology to make it commercially viable, other than demand. You know, from all the fucking data centers going in.
Hell, let’s go back to Germany. They have double the wind capacity as they do solar? Why? Demand. Because Germany focused on wind as being the premier renewable energy, not solar. It wasn’t until recently that they created programs to increase demand of solar.
The grid is an infrastructure project. As such, we don’t need to rely on batteries. We can use infrastructure projects, such as reservoirs, for energy storage. And in the US, we’ve been using this method since 1930. I know what youre thinking, “In northern Europe we can’t do that!” But alas, Switzerland did it in 1909. And pumped storage hydropower achieves 70-80% efficiency, which is pretty fucking good. And let’s be real, if your grid isn’t diversified enough where that’s a problem, then that’s a problem with your grid and your incompetent policy makers, not the tech. Or there’s an issue with electric demand, which is a failure of your politicians not keeping the Pedophile Class in line.
The reason energy storage for the grid is a problem now is because we didn’t invest in production 30 years ago. Not because the research was behind. It’s because politicians and the pedophile class failed us.
You are failing the future with the bullshit that you are spouting. Just a parrot of the pedophile class.
Research, knowledge, and tech is not restricting energy storage.
Add “hot sand” to your storage options friend. It’s shockingly efficient for storing thermal energy, which can be used directly for vast swathes of industrial processes, and with the addition of the oldie but goodie “turbine and steam”…
Nobody is really thinking. Some of the people who hate nuclear power think reactors are literally nuclear bombs, some of them believe the wildly exaggerated claims about waste storage and disposal, some of them are getting paid by Russia to undermine competition for their gas.
Acting as if nuclear power failures can’t and haven’t caused catastrophic problems doesn’t help the argument. I can understand why people don’t trust the government to properly regulate and police the industry when there are multiple incidents when that’s been proven.
Also there exists no countries next to France that are pure renewable. There doesn’t exist a nation with pure renewables anywhere in the world. Maybe Norway.
But I assume you are referring to Spain, which is heavily dependent on nuclear power and fossil gas for the hours where solar and wind fails. They have used them plentifully during the summer.
Looking at cross border trade, Spain has imported energy more often during the summer compared to France.
But maybe you don’t live in Spain. Maybe you live on Atlantis or another fantasy land?
I suppose you could be from Switzerland, but they have nuclear power too, so it cannot be that. They also have consistently been importing electricity from France this summer. You must be from Atlantis or Narnia or some other fairy tale land with pure renewables.
Nuclear power: provides stable power year round, then has one unplanned interruption to power production in 44 years.
“Look! Nuclear so bad, it doesn’t work!”
Renewables: has interruptions to power production literally every day.
“This is great! I can’t turn my lights on half the time and got no heating at winter, but its great!”
How are you people thinking? I get nuclear power is more expensive, but it is the only reliable carbon dioxide-free power source during winter and nights and it always will be. We clearly need both.
I’m a firm believer in nuclear, but I think that’s a garbage argument against renewable since we have batteries, and other means of energy storage like reservoirs. And now China is lifting a building and dropping it for power. The US is introducing batteries that last 24 hours for data center use.
Honestly, the energy storage sector is interesting to watch right now. There are seemingly endlessly researched designs for energy storage that have never made it to market. But now all of a sudden when data centers are realizing there’s not enough power on the grid, now they’re hitting market. To an extent, I get supply and demand. But the energy storage infrastructure hitting the market now isn’t from recent ground breaking innovations. This shit could have been implemented years ago.
I also have my eyes on energy storage, but it isn’t viable for many decades, if ever. There is no production in large scales enough to supply enough storage for even a fraction of what is needed. Many of these amazing designs are still in lab or demonstration stage and at best at low scale production. They will not be in large scale production for years or a decade.
It would take several years of current battery production rate to have enough storage for Europe and they aren’t made in Europe but largely in China who will use it for themselves.
There won’t be enough production capacity of any type of energy storage for many decades, even if we took a design now and started scaling up like crazy. It isn’t a matter of technology, but of scale and production capacity.
Then you have the added problem of the fact that northern and central Europe has next to no sun during half the year. You can store some from wind, but you’d need an unimaginable amount of energy storage to cover for the long periods of dunkelflaute.
Nuclear can do this just fine. Nuclear that can be scaled up during winter and then turned down during summer will be an essential part of a stable grid for many decades to come. Energy storage will mean less nuclear is required, but we don’t have energy storage tech to charge up entire countries worth of energy during summer to be used in winter. There isn’t enough by far.
I look forward to what is coming regarding energy storage, but it is still just ideas and testing and what is in production is too expensive and in far to low production. We have to be realistic and use what we have now, not in 20 years. We cannot keep burning fossil fuels to wait for new energy storage solutions that MIGHT become available at some point and whose production volumes will take a decade or two to scale up once and if they get out of the lab.
Energy storage =/= batteries
I’m American, I dont know shit about geography, but I think Germany is central to northern Europe.
Germany’s peak solar time is the summer, and their peak wind time is winter. Fascinating. Do you think the people in charge of the grid know this? Maybe this could be leveraged to reduce the energy storage needs for solar power during the winter???
As someone who closely follows the energy storage market, you should know that lithium-ion battery production capacity is expected to reach 7TWh/year by 2030, from 2022’s 2TWh/year. Why? Demand, from all the fucking electric vehicles because we’re going to run out of fossil fuels soon. Not technological advances.
Similarly, iron air batteries were tested by Westinghouse in the 70s, and are currently being brought to market. As far as I can tell, there has been little improvements to the technology to make it commercially viable, other than demand. You know, from all the fucking data centers going in.
Hell, let’s go back to Germany. They have double the wind capacity as they do solar? Why? Demand. Because Germany focused on wind as being the premier renewable energy, not solar. It wasn’t until recently that they created programs to increase demand of solar.
The grid is an infrastructure project. As such, we don’t need to rely on batteries. We can use infrastructure projects, such as reservoirs, for energy storage. And in the US, we’ve been using this method since 1930. I know what youre thinking, “In northern Europe we can’t do that!” But alas, Switzerland did it in 1909. And pumped storage hydropower achieves 70-80% efficiency, which is pretty fucking good. And let’s be real, if your grid isn’t diversified enough where that’s a problem, then that’s a problem with your grid and your incompetent policy makers, not the tech. Or there’s an issue with electric demand, which is a failure of your politicians not keeping the Pedophile Class in line.
The reason energy storage for the grid is a problem now is because we didn’t invest in production 30 years ago. Not because the research was behind. It’s because politicians and the pedophile class failed us.
You are failing the future with the bullshit that you are spouting. Just a parrot of the pedophile class.
Research, knowledge, and tech is not restricting energy storage.
Politicians and the pedophile elite are.
Add “hot sand” to your storage options friend. It’s shockingly efficient for storing thermal energy, which can be used directly for vast swathes of industrial processes, and with the addition of the oldie but goodie “turbine and steam”…
Law of fossil propaganda on the Internet: When astroturfers don’t have any credible argument left, they will resort to trolling.
Nobody is really thinking. Some of the people who hate nuclear power think reactors are literally nuclear bombs, some of them believe the wildly exaggerated claims about waste storage and disposal, some of them are getting paid by Russia to undermine competition for their gas.
Acting as if nuclear power failures can’t and haven’t caused catastrophic problems doesn’t help the argument. I can understand why people don’t trust the government to properly regulate and police the industry when there are multiple incidents when that’s been proven.
I live in an area that purely runs on renewables. We have wind, solar and hydroelectric. No outages.
We’re providing France with energy because their nuclear power stations can’t deal with the heat.
Mind showing me some data on that? France has been a net exporter of electricity June, July and so far in August. Their nuclear power has been fine with only minor reduction in capacity in individual power plants, but the vast majority are fine. See here: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=FR&interval=year&legendItems=4x0ffvg
You have been misled.
Also there exists no countries next to France that are pure renewable. There doesn’t exist a nation with pure renewables anywhere in the world. Maybe Norway.
But I assume you are referring to Spain, which is heavily dependent on nuclear power and fossil gas for the hours where solar and wind fails. They have used them plentifully during the summer.
See Spain power production here: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=ES&interval=year&legendItems=3wew5
Looking at cross border trade, Spain has imported energy more often during the summer compared to France.
But maybe you don’t live in Spain. Maybe you live on Atlantis or another fantasy land?
I suppose you could be from Switzerland, but they have nuclear power too, so it cannot be that. They also have consistently been importing electricity from France this summer. You must be from Atlantis or Narnia or some other fairy tale land with pure renewables.