Canonical patronizingly forcing a tool/workflow onto users against their explicit and unequivocal rejection of it?
That’s not what the articles says or implies at all. The article only refers to another article with a click bait headline. The article article summarizes Canonical stance like this:
- Canonical will add AI to Ubuntu — but only cautiously and when it truly makes sense.
- AI features must be mature, open-source, and run locally when possible.
- Focus AI on accessibility (speech-to-text, TTS) and improvements, not turning Ubuntu into an ‘AI product’.
And to be clear, including a tool or default workflow is MILES away from patronizingly forcing it on to users. It’s just the way that most distros that aren’t Linux From Scratch work.
Problem is, Ubuntu’s track record with projects like Upstart, Unity, Mir, Snap, Netplan, Amazon integration, the Rust coreutils rewrite, etc. makes the “only cautiously and where it truly makes sense” promise seem rather hollow.
Yes, distros make different choices about the systems they want to use. That’s the way distro work. If you don’t like it, choose a different flavor of ubuntu or a different distro altogether. Nobody’s being forced to do anything they don’t want here. What’s the alternative? Everybody just does everything exact the way some armchair developers or Arch cultists have decided is the best way for them? No thanks.
Yes. And many users have many times done exactly that.
But I’ve BEEN there for the bitter, insulting interviews where Shuttleworth STILL moans and complains that Unity was the future and users were too thick to accept his vision. After they realized too many people were switching back to Gnome, they decided to put a stop to that by making Unity the only default installed DE and providing no further support. This is a company run by a man who by all accounts is a petty dictator who still doesn’t get it.
I already left Ubuntu. That doesn’t mean I don’t get to call them out for being heavy handed and pigheaded. Just because something is open source and free does not make it immune to criticism. Just like I am free to go to another distro, Ubuntu’s developers are free to ignore my comments.
I’m curious how they will handle the Linux kernel itself, Linus has given the green light for AI slop.
Do you in your heart of hearts believe this what you said here to be accurate?
Like I am not a fan of LLM slop coded projects, but I don’t think what you said can be honestly claimed to be accurate.
Not sure why there are down votes, this is a legitimate concern. https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html
There’s a large amount of pro LLM users on .world who refuse any conversation that even slightly criticizes the technology. They don’t understand how it works while simultaneously using it to feed a false ego.
I can tell you I will get downvoted for this comment. I’ve already been banned from a few communities for arguing with these knuckle draggers. For the record I’m not even anti “AI”, just LLMs. Try explaining machine learning to them and watch their heads explode.
Damn. I think it’s time for me to finally try Mint. Currently using 98% Ubuntu and 2% Windows because unfortunately there’s always some sort of Windows-only software I need for one reason or another. Yes I’ve tried Wine, I haven’t gotten it to work.
Do yourself a favor, do Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE). It’s got all the slickness of Mint, but the core is based on Debian instead of Ubuntu.
Would installing KDE plasma on LMDE be beginner-friendly.?
People love it for some reason but I cannot recommend. Newer laptops are trapped between no support under X and a half baked version under Wayland. And I didn’t find the community supportive enough.
Mint is based off of Ubuntu
There is a Debian based version called LMDE.
your saying snap-packages arent enough of a cluster-fuck to turn you off of Ubuntu?
Depending on the software, Winboat might be what you need.
What’s the software? Maybe a simple VM would do the job?
Sony DSLR apps are all non Linux. Some folks like me are forced to use Windows or Mac.
Solidworks, Fusion360, Altium, and a few others
Fusion360 actively attempts to block wine usage so you have to use a VM (or a single application VM like Winboat) for it to play ball. I haven’t had experience with any of the others though.
How does winboat work?
Makes a container windows install.
Do you have to see if the application you want to host is supported, or is it pretty compatible?
There are some windows softwares i want to run, but they don’t work in wine.
Its a full VM so the main downside is that GPU acceleration is 0 but you have full CPU speeds.
Also expect the VM to eat the typical 60gb + the applications of storage
Could we find Open Source alternatives? I’ve gotten good use of blender for these but I don’t know your use cases
Blender is world class, but the CAD softwares are leagues behind, unfortunately.
Whilst FreeCAD certainly doesn’t have feature parity with things like Creo, I firmly believe it is good enough for most people. I switched to only using that for all my contract work and personal projects and it’s generally been fine
That’s awesome! Do you have any videos you’d recommend for someone getting into it?
I wish there were open source alternatives to Autocad, but freecad is doing its own thing and as someone who uses Autocad as part of her career it’s so much easier to keep a partition for when I need to throw something together than to learn how to make freecad work
I refuse to use Fusion360 because of what Autodesk did to Eagle (and my forever licence)
Autodesk are awful.
I hate it too. I use it to generate gcode for my CNC milling machine. Yes, Solidworks can also do that but it has a much steeper learning curve.
May I recommend something fedora based? No dealing with Ubuntu or arch problems
I don’t see how a hat can fix that problem
What Windows software do you find that isn’t working on Linux?
I can’t speak on behalf of him, but all my old CD-ROM games from the late 90’s and early 2000s don’t work on Linux, even with Wine. I’d love to get them working one day, so I’m watching this thread
Perhaps you could try bottles? I can’t speak on it’s usefulness or not, but something else to try. https://usebottles.com/
Thanks I’ll give it a go!
Good. There will be choice.
Regardless, they have no control over upstream packages. Are they going to move away from the linux kernel 100%?
I’d assume that this deals with stuff that the Debian project maintains itself, like the package files. Like, it doesn’t mean that they won’t package code that has been written using AI.
They’re definitely going to be building it from source and delivering those packages though.
Im also certain they’re not going it catch it all in their own packages.
I don’t think that’s what’s being discussed?
There’s no assertion that the debian OS as installed will be free from AI generated code.
I presume the assertion is that the debian project’s code of conduct will require some level of human involvement in code generation.
Its definitely being discussed and voting is happening as we speak.
No it isn’t. That proposal specifically states that upstream code is not included in the ban.
Literally in proposal A:
We will not allow direct contributions to Debian written with the use or assistance of large language models (LLMs) or other generative AI tools. Direct contributions are defined as packaging, native Debian software like lintian, documentation and translations written by Debian contributors, and official Debian web resources, etc. Other categories such as upstream projects written with LLM assistance may be included at a later date. This ensures that Debian remains a stable, trusted, and reliable operating system, and protects the interests of the Debian volunteers who make it possible.
Cool downvote tho
I like this attitude. I think if the LLMs weren’t forced down everyone throats, there would be a lot less hostility towards them
It’s just so suspiciously and aggressively being shoved down our throats.
They want to make everybody dependent upon AI for information that will then be used to misinform people in order to control them.
I’ve been saying this for years. Look at taxi’s. In my city in 2005 there were 8 major taxi companies. Each with hundreds of drivers on the road at any given time. Now we have 2 of those 8 remaining, and they’re essentially shell companies with 2-3 drivers on the road. The last 4 times I’ve tried ordering a cab the traditional way, I’ve been told there’s no drivers available. Now it’s all Uber. And Lyft. You can’t call them. You need a cell phone, and you need internet access.
All the major corporations are in agreement that we all need cell phones, and we all need to be tracked 24/7. And now with AI, they’re getting their data straight from the source. There are men out there who talk to an AI girlfriend. Not sexy stuff. I mean imagine sitting at the dinner table, and discussing your day…with your AI girlfriend. Meanwhile, ALL that data is going straight to the companies that host the AI.
Another side effect is that AI will make people dumber. In case you haven’t noticed since the 1970s, there has been a GOP push to make the citizens dumber and dumber. Easier to control. Easier to fool. Easier to get away with things.
So now you got ram being sold for computers that haven’t been built yet, to be put in data centers that haven’t been built yet, to run an AI system that isn’t functional yet, in order to steal the jobs of employees that can’t be replaced yet, all in an effort to chase profits that were never possible in the first place since everyone hates AI.
You wanna see some shit go down? Tell the companies we’ll use their AI if they get the unredacted epstein files released. See how fast they bribe the right people then.
Now tell the politicians we’ll stop caring about the epstein files if they forcibly ban all data centers in the country. See how fast they act on that.
Now we sit back, wait, and watch the fireworks. Oh, and by the way, we’re going back on our word either way. Whomever wins, fuck em.
I mean imagine sitting at the dinner table, and discussing your day……with your AI girlfriend.
I’m trying to imagine what this might be like. How sexy voice and vapid is AI girlfriend?
That’s almost surely configurable
I mean at this point people are looking for connections, so that bot who will do basically whatever you say and stroke your ego, sure seems like something ‘better’ than actually going out and being rejected. There likely is going to be a point in the future where people have more ‘augmented friendships’ than actual friendships.
Oh, and by the way, we’re going back on our word either way. Whomever wins, fuck em.
I like your energy.
Nonsense. This is one of those malice / incompetence things.
Everything we’re seeing can be described by dumb / lazy / greedy management and greedy venture capitalists.
No one actually has a plan to make everyone dependent on AI with the intent to control them. The intent is to harvest value from them.
I remember Elon Musk fiddling with Grok. Just look at the “Trans”-article in Grokipedia.
Yes, it’s not the technology I hate, it’s the people pushing it, demanding it, saying it will replace humans. Those people can fuck right off. Technology exists to serve humans, not the other way around. We are being sold a lie. The technology has some interesting aspects, but the pushers are pushing bullshit.
Technology has always replaced humans though. That’s ultimately the point. The problem becomes when there aren’t alternatives for humans to do but we still live in a capitalistic and consumeristic society.
I think everyone want’s their lives to be easier, but they also want to be able to eat, survive and thrive.
it’s the people pushing it, demanding it, saying it will replace humans
I do hate these people but at least they self-identify as idiots.
Why? AI and technology in general absolutely replaces human labor. For me, the hate is that is coming extremely rapidly and there is little thought from anyone about what’s going to be next. A post scarcity society is inching ever closer, and individuals are just pissed about the system, governments can’t do anything, and the owners are figuring out how to monetize it all. Seems like we are cooked if we don’t all start working on ideas of what society looks like when very few need to actually ‘work’, or a larger portion of society cannot work. Because even without AI or technological advancements, the population is rapidly aging and simply will not be able to work.
Gen AI is not going to replace humans.
It already is, especially at the entry level, which is a massive problem. You went to college, have the education but don’t have the skills, and an AI bot can do essentially 80% of your work, with little of the cost. Think about all the people already putting websites, marketing, images together that otherwise you would need to pay someone for. No need to pay for them, even if they do a better job, because most of the time you aren’t looking for 100% when 80% will do. That’s the unfortunate reality that we all live in.
Alright. Hang the fuck on.
Class war.
Technology is incapable of doing anything. It literally can do nothing. It can be used as a tool for sure.
It’s currently being used to fuck you. It’s fucking me. It’s fucking us.
BUT ONLY AT THE DIRECTION OF BILLIONAIRES
Class War
You can say that again.
Class warfare.
What is good for?
Tools are labour made solid. They’re built by workers, and used by other workers in order to be more productive. Unlike a worker, a tool can be owned, which is why the owner class will always prefer more of the “skill” in production come from tools and processes, even at the cost of some craft or quality. Because they get more control.
Anyway LLMs are like a knowledge tool in this case. A truly devastating weapon in the class war, assuming workers agree to adopt it and help improve it.
assuming workers agree to adopt it and help improve it.
Or forced by their employer by threat of homelessness
I meant collectively, not individually.
Obviously as a solitary worker you’re probably going to have a hard time standing up to your employer.
I find it all very “people writing text/code by hand on a computer they own isn’t generating subscription revenue and can’t be data mined by advertisers and governments as it’s passing through a data center unencrypted”-type suspicious…
If big tech corners the market, we have no choice but to come to them for compute. You can stifle speech, control markets, awareness of new developments before they’re public.
It’s a power grab.
It insists upon itself.
For me, it’s first and foremost how they were/are trained and who gets all the profits/benefits.
Yup, of free and open self-hostable ones I am a lot more accepting, but I need big corpos to all crash and burn.
What are they going to do about upstreams that use it? Like the Linux kernel for example.
Nothing, that’s out of scope.
“but tiktok told me AI is draning lake america!”
Ubuntu: The Windows of Linux.
I think technically that might have been Lindows.
I thought Ubuntu was the macOS of Linux and the Windows of Linux is Omarchy
Canonical the Microsoft linux
No, that would be Azure Linux
5-10 years from now they will pull their Windows 11-equivalent crash and burn move
I remember when they wanted to unify mobile phones and desktop computers, with a singular online storage account and DE that changed when you plugged your phone into a monitor. That shit was crazy.
I still want that
The best vision for that was unironically Microsoft’s, but by that time they had started the enshittification with Windows 10
@sanitation same with postmarketos and alpine :P
pmOS: ban all AI
alpine: no need to indicate if AI was used or not (last i saw, maybe still in discussion still)tbh I dont support ban. I think they should ban ai publicly only to avoid copyright and lawsuits issues from AI but then use it to produce linux based android alternative quickly.
Arch users are forced to write their own AI?
AI powered by the Arch Wiki and AUR
AI - Archist Intelligence
(dude this is so cringe)
Ubuntu has a long and storied history of making bad decisions. Why should AI be any different?
There’s nothing about Ubuntu’s proposed use of AI that seems bad at all. Using it to improve accessibility is a good thing, especially when it’s open source, local-only, and sandboxed. I can’t see how having high quality speech-to-text would be a bad decision. Much of that stuff is probably not even considered “AI” by most people.
Emperor: “Do it.”
Banning all AI-generated code is a crazy thing to do. AI is just a tool.
I agree partially: banning AI generated code is a little nuts at this point.
BUT it isn’t “just a tool”. No mere tool requires tech companies to set up illegal energy plants. No mere tool requires the construction of data centers that consume more power than whole cities. No mere tool requires the acquisition and destruction of untold amounts of rare books. No mere tool requires trillions of dollars in funding without any proof that there will ever be an ROI. No mere tool requires a money furnace to operate. No mere tool requires constant, costly maintenance and development so it doesn’t get out of date. No mere tool requires hundreds of billions of dollars of investment only to see little in terms of quantifiable improvement in the tool. No mere tool requires constant chirping about fictional possibilities of super human intelligence and singularities in order to stick around.
No hammer is built with the promise of replacing the carpenter. No pencil is built with the promise of replacing the architect.
AI is much more than a mere tool. It’s a fucking cult of autocomplete enthusiasts.
Banning feces from food is a crazy thing to do. feces is just a nutrient source.
But there is an acceptable amount of poop in food lol
Technically correct: food standards can include numbers for “allowable” amounts of rat droppings and similar in some foods. Here’s the FDA’s version.
(Bet you didn’t want to know that.)
feces is just a nutrient source.
Probiotic milk!
Banning all of everything is usually a crazy thing to do.
But it happens when absolute shitnozzles who don’t understand how to do or possess X responsibly expect to be able to have and use X however they want while socializing their personal screw-ups onto other people who never asked for their BS.
When the hype dies and functional and proven AI tools are in the hands of people who can use them responsibly instead of trend-chasers with no discipline, maybe they can start to crack the gate open.
I can name one other thing in this thread thats just a tool
Is ai code any worse than stackoverflow?
Except with stack overflow you can use your experience and pick the best code and onboard the comments discussing various aspects of the different answers. The LLMs don’t do that.
They can just spit out whatever the fuck they want and there’s no guidance or votes or comments. Just an averaging of everything.
I agree, human vetting from experience is essential. But with agenetic, tool calling LLMs, you can (and should IMO) require multiple solutions be explored and presented with the tradeoffs for each option clearly outlined, and wait for you guidance to proceed with the advisee approach.
LLM can definitely be used to churn out garbage code based on the averaging of everything, but can also be a super useful tool, if used effectively, to quickly see the most common ways a problem is solved, and then design and iterate a solution that works for your project.
Similar to how I used to use SO, but with reasoned reviews of all the posted solutions and the ability to prototype what might work best for what I need.
Based
