If they could draw or make music, they wouldn’t need a robot to do it, and they clearly want to but don’t have the skills.
Desired isn’t the same thing as important.
The question has never been whether people want it. I think it’s pretty clear they do. The problem is whether people want to spend the time in money, or skill, to get it.
I would love to be able to paint sci-fi pinups. But do I want to trade 10k hours of other stuff I’m already better at to do it? Once I painted them, would I truly love the work, or would I just see all the imperfections and be grumpy about it?
Artists have it hard. They spend unending hours on their passion and, in the end, see everything through a critical lens. And when they spend a month of time on something amazing, no one wants to trade a day of salary to own a copy, or a month of salary to own the original.
AI is so wildly popular because it’s cheap, and through the lens of the consumer (read untrained eye), the best of it evokes emotions they get from a piece that would go for hundreds or thousands of dollars.
The true fucked up part. If the courts all say NFG, dump all your diffusion models that are full of copyrighted material. They’d just go back and commission artists in distressed places and rebuild the models from properly purchased material and we’ll be right back where we are.
Still image diffusion isn’t even expensive to run,
AI is so wildly popular because it’s cheap, and through the lens of the consumer (read untrained eye), the best of it evokes emotions they get from a piece that would go for hundreds or thousands of dollars.
I just went to an art museum that had a bunch of Van Gogh’s sunflower pieces on display, and I can assure you, AI art will never be able to invoke the kind of emotional response as I got from looking at those paintings. I’m not an artist, I haven’t taken an art class since high school, so my eye is pretty damn untrained. But even I can appreciate the history of the pieces, the artist behind the work, the headspace he was in and how it affected the finished piece, the extreme conditions he had to overcome just to finish some of the pieces. That’s a huge part of what evokes emotion in an art piece - knowing the story of the art and the artist. And that’s something AI art will never have.
AI art is cheap, sure, but it’s hollow, and people will always be able to tell that.
The first time I saw Rembrandt’s work in person I felt this sort of awe. It wasn’t just a picture of a painting in a book or an image made by a computer, they felt like time machines, a hole in the wall with a real person from the 1600s sitting on the other side looking back at me. I don’t think we need to limit ourselves to just the masters but they do a fantastic job at making a point, real art is an experience not just something to look at
Have you considered the end result is not the purpose? The doing of art is what gives it meaning, to the artist and the viewer. It’s what makes it satisfying, even if it didn’t turn out how you wanted exactly.
The end result is what other people see and what gets you paid. That’s why people want to do it via AI.
Personally, I could sink 10k hours into whatever visual art and I’ll never be good at it. I don’t enjoy it either. I can only hire an expensive artist or use AI if I want something made. Since using AI art sucks, I’ve opted not to continue work on the video game I started work on a while ago. An alternative is to pay for asset packs from a studio that sells them, but then it’s just an asset flip.
How soullessly capitalist it is to think the only purpose of art is what money you can make off of it. Who cares about meaning, the almighty dollar is the only thing important in life.
is not the purpose? The doing of art is what gives it meaning, to the artist and th
I’m in a business that has a lot of artists. These are observations I make.
I’m also in the business of art abd I’m standing by what I said.
have a nice one
They’re not even really using the ai correctly. If you really absolutely must use ai, there is a way to do it without ripping people off, harming artists, or being a petulant jackass on the internet.
Draw something. Draw something, upload it to your precious ai, “ok llm, here is what I can draw at my current level, tell me what I need to work on and give me exercises I can do to improve.”
Boom. You can actually become a better artist, still use your precious ai, not hurt anyone, and actually develop a skill, and improve your life without a single artist getting harmed or a single person getting ripped off.
Or better, check out a book from the library because ai will give you the art equivalent advice if putting glue on pizza
Sure… If the AI could consistently give accurate, relevant answers and not conflate everything it has been trained on together resulting in incorrect or even entirely made up garbage.
if it improves your skills in your own opinion it isn’t wrong.
It’s not likely to actually improve your skills even in your own opinion if it’s not actually giving good advice or techniques. 🙄
i dont think it does.
because if people wanted to do the arts, they’d do the arts. while schools are expensive, sitting at home and writing lyrics or sketching out drawing isnt.
What using AI does, is let them get adoration from fools and idiots without having to make an effort in lifting a finger.
If you gave me a Star Trek Replicator, I’m gonna be eating all kinds of gourmet shit. It doesnt mean I want to be a world class chef, it just means I’m a lazy fat fuck that wants excess without effort or cost.
Arts in state schools isn’t about mastering a particular medium, it’s about introducing learners to the different forms art can take and giving access to specialised equipment that’s too expensive for them to buy without committing to the art form. Sketching and lyrics writing are fine for some, but others won’t learn they want to learn more about photography, or sculpture, or pottery, or an instrument, or any number of other things if they don’t actually get the opportunity to try it. If more people understood art, AI artists wouldn’t get that adoration in the first place.
Not sure why you got a downvote (at time of writing this). It’s absolutely the truth that using AI is laziness, not an accessibility tool. It’s unfortunate though. I find its use morally reprehensible and yet can’t help but be charmed by some of the batshit garbage it spits out. It’s definitely a 7-fingered sword.
Up/down votes dont matter anyway, don’t concern yourself with it. They are a root evil and should just be ignored. If lemmy wanted to actually be different, and better, it’d get rid of the damned thing cause all it does is lead to mindless, thoughtless bandwagoning and dopamine addiction directed behavior.
Stolen valor
even going to these expensive art or music schools, like juilhart, wont guaranteed your a good actor/musician, or artist. point out, like glenn howerton of isaip, hes very rigid in his acting, so hes not good elsewhere outside of his shows.(it explains why the cast so desperate to branch out like a decade ago)
People looking for a get rich quick scheme. Can’t afford to live otherwise.
I think this is it. I don’t think people are making music for the love of the art and all that. I think they’re taking a shortcut to potentially produce some sort of side hustle. It’s presumably a “make a song that sounds like a mix between artist X and artist Y,” and then a fine tuning via prompts from there. We live in a generation of hustles and influencers, and AI is great for both of those things. Those things are, unfortunately, just terrible for society on the whole.
It’s cool though, it’ll all come to a head, and we’ll see what happens!
It’s tough to prevent that type of culture when art organizations aren’t even disallowing the use of AI anymore.
I call them no talent ass clowns.
That’s what they are.
Oh bitch please.
Im not very artistic but I like singing in a choir. Im glad I had at least some exposure to music even though I can’t read a lick and have a hard time finding pitch from a piano. give me a good section anchor and some solfage and im good.
I’m a musician, dudes come up to me like listen to this song I made, and it’s obviously suno…
I call them out on it and they’re like mumble mumble.
Is ai the only tool which makes a form of artwork “not count” for you or anything else?
They’d still do this even if they had the opportunity to not do it.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-- the only thing AI is good at is defrauding others. It’s literally what it is trained to do.
It’s pretty great for learning.
I think AI is interesting for studying emergent behavior from highly dynamic systems. I’ve looked — we humans don’t really have a formal scientific study of emergence. The subject is broke up
My sibling is trying to launch an AI music career and it drives me off a fucking cliff. No shit, one of the songs they made was used at a funeral and I nearly barfed. What’s worse, whenever I try to talk any sort of serious subject, about shit in the world, or what I’m dealing with in my personal life, their advice is to find a creative outlet Iike theirs.
Looking forward to the holidays after that banger they prompted for my birthday!
Disgusting. I’d crawl out of my grave and strangle someone if they pulled this.
What the fuck is an “AI music career”? Like, they’re writing prompts for AI songs and then hoping people will pay money for this songs?
They’re also stealing music from REAL musicians like me and trying to sell it and replace us. Fuck em, hope they fucking die.
Yes. Has quite a playlist on Spotify or something like it.
Truthfully you sound like you’re trying to bring someone down who is having a good time. I’m a pro artist from before AI and doing even better now that people can being their ideas to me in a way that looks better than scratches on napkin.
AI didn’t make it so you can’t make money off music and writing. That ship sailed long ago. You do that shit for the love of the game. A human doing it makes it worth more now not less.
The problem is the fucking stealing of other people works.
You haven’t heard the songs.
I honestly didn’t ever consider that being a pro artist involves bringing other peoples ideas to life. I had some idealistic image of artists bringing their own ideas to life I guess. I guess singer-songwriter is its own genre for a reason
I was in on Suno super early. I write my own lyrics and beats and music but couldn’t record voice (poor), so I’d put it in there and it’s shocking how well it works.
So I figured, let’s defraud a bunch of people on Spotify and get money, and then I thought about it and was like, what kind of scumbag would do such a thing, and dropped the idea and stopped using suno.
Honestly as a musician what I was hoping Suno would be is an intelligent loop pedal or backing generator that I could plug my instruments in and be supported by when there’s not enough people for a whole band. I was so disappointed it’s basically a slop generator.
I think a better tool for me would be a normal loop pedal which can be be disciplined in tempo by the drummer in real time.
Try getting through to them by generating a song calling them a loser.
Has nobody considered the angle that slopping is fun? It doesn’t make you an artist, nor an author, nor a musician. But it makes a thing at your direction and you can point at it and say “this vaguely resembles the idea in my brain”. For some people, that’s enough.
(this has been part 4 on my Nuanced Opinions Regarding AI)
If people got a proper art education they would know drawing is more fun.
It’s still theft. Nobody gave permission for their work to be used as training data.
I agree. Sam Altman and his ilk deserve prison for stealing every intellectual property on the internet (among other crimes).
I think AI can be great for this. It can make so many thing accessible to people that could not otherwise. Your example here is good and there are some legitimately fun AI songs.
The key is being able to discriminate something you’ve done for fun and being a serious artist. The problem becomes when people conflate something they’ve done as a fun hobby as being worthy of sitting next to human created art.
I’ve used AI to code lots of things for personal use that I wouldn’t have had the time to complete otherwise. The difference is, I use them personally and don’t release them as a serious software product.
Sir and or madam, I would like to subscribe to Nuanced Opinions Regarding AI facts.
part 1: https://lemmy.world/post/52423516/26039575
part 2: https://lemmy.world/post/52446320/26057464
part 3: https://lemmy.world/post/52700982/26163401
i don’t know how to do lemmy compliant links
That’s why the zeitgeist needs more time to settle on the perception of LLMs. It’s a cool toy, but people shouldn’t be getting it in their head that it gives them a shortcut to becoming a professional.
Wow. That’s a phenomenal comment. In my human opinion. Very cogent.
You gotta understand what it’s good for as a tool and realize it’s not going to do your job for you.
The problem is that it’s utility is basically inversely correlated with your skill on a given subject because you can’t reasonably hope to guide it to what you actually want if you aren’t already pretty skilled. Similarly, how much “benefit” or “coolness” it provides you is also inversely correlated with your skill but with like 3x the slope of utility.
If you are needing to navigate a pool of text as an expert in a field, it’s obscenely useful and the holes/pitfalls are super evident. The less skilled you are as a user the more magical and beneficial it all looks, which is scary.
In slightly more than a day, I got a working save editor generated by my local AI, a Qwen-Next model. Given a couple more years of AI development, I will be able to have some really old and obscure games remastered.
the problem is that it’s utility is basically inversely correlated with your skill
I’ve thought this exact thing too, I’m sure many of us have. AI is really you get what you give, literally. If you’re educated, well read, know how to write and interact and think critically and have some technical skill, it can be massively useful.
If you don’t you just get mental masturbation.
Edit:
It’s like, I hate cars. I want them dead, gone, erased.
And I can acknowledge their utility.
I literally havent considered that. Probs should. It was really fun for me for a short while, but I never wanted to share my creations or pass it off as my own.
“Make a tank out of liqorice allsorts but have Big Bird hanging out the top using a stick of liquorice as a cigar” “hahahahaha thats really funny”.
It got boring fast though.
That was my perspective as well. Once that immediate novelty wore off I started to look at people still playing with it and wondering what they’re seeing that I’m not.
But I guess people like different things. Like I hate reality TV shows, but those are plenty popular.
I HATE LLMs
But it can be fun, a little part of the problem specifically for LLMs they are addicting. Image generation version less so unless it’s for porn
But I mean these things are great for shit posts
LLMs are designed to be addictive.
If you set the settings (that should be on by default) it will be more of a tool than something that foeces you to interact with.
Examples:
Don’t let them ask questions if they are not needed. You prompt it not the other way around.
Turn off compliments and ask for more negative feedback.
Make sure it doesn’t pretend to be human with feelings and actual personality.I found these pretty useful rules.
They’re great for shitposts? I thought the point of shitposts was they take no effort. Wouldn’t putting an extra service in the loop just complicate it?
I think that the kinds of people who would find the lying machine addictive would probably also find gambling mechanics in video games addictive. Also regular porn can be addictive to some people as well. I’m not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that these specific issues are not unique to generative ai.
Doubt.
You spend so much time using your clock and calculator on your phone you clearly want to be an engineer but don’t have the skills.
If that were true, there would be people saying they are engineers for doing this.
There aren’t.
But there’s people saying they’re artists and musicians for making slop…
That’s actually a really illuminating analogy.
I can’t say I understand what people get out of playing with LLMs, but if they view writing code or drawing pictures like I view using a calculator then that explains a lot of the disconnect between the two camps.
I would 100% let some model draw me up a comic to shitpost without a second thought, and it by no means should be construed to mean that I wish I had chosen art for a career or a major or even a hobby.
This is basically just taking a shit on the sidewalk and leaving it there.
Ok? So is Mimi comics and pizzacake if you ask me.
Interestinger and interestinger. So you wish you could create the art (or pictures, whatever term you want to use), but the way you do it doesn’t matter, so you just use the LLM because that’s the easiest way to do it?
Would you normally try to soup something up in paint, or just do something else? I mean like before you could generate it with natural language.
I don’t personally use llms anymore, but when I did, it was for use cases where either I wanted a thing to be reasonably easy/fast or I would do without (a character sketch for DnD) or for visual representations that quick google searches weren’t turning up.
I watched a video where someone sent AI images to dress makers so they could make dresses. If I wanted a very specific type of dress, and I can’t draw this seems like a great way to communicate my desires and intentions.
I realize I’m a little bit of a liar. I will sometimes use Be My AI to help alt-text/caption pictures that happen to have a lot going on. So they get a list of snacks instead of something like “table with various snacks”.
So just FYI the rule of thumb with alt text that I’ve heard is: imagine you’re describing the picture you’re looking at to someone you’re talking on the phone with.
So that usually means keeping it brief and precise to only the aspects which are relevant to the context it’s being posted in.
Sorry if you’ve heard this already, but yet helped me a lot.
I upvote you because yes, but also I have a few light independent (non sighted) coworkers who like all the details.
Yeah I’ve done some minor photoshop before but that isn’t really the point.
It’s not even that I wish I could do it. Sometimes I think of a stupid meme like the “well yes but actually no” pirate and a picture of Mr Bean and Sean Bean or something and I could let an LLM shit that side by side out instead of using meme generator and like 10 minutes of thought. Or I could just… Not. I actually haven’t ever, but people who say “oh just draw it even if it’s stick figures” are full of shit. If I want to make a comic I’ll just do it who cares how.
Of course there is value in art, but that value doesn’t come in proportion to the huge number of people studying it and it doesn’t come from comics or memes either in my estimation. I don’t/wouldn’t use a language model for those things because I have penis envy, but rather because it’s easy for dicking around. People asking for relationship advice to Claude are also not secretly wishing they had gone to school for a BS in psych.
At the risk of being dismissive, people with liberal arts or art degrees can cool their tits: basically no one is using LLMs because we secretly wish we had gone down that road, and the ones that do… Well… Bless their hearts they are a small and special minority.
Thanks for taking the time to go into it. It seems like people are having this conversation in every community and every friend group and most of the time it’s just people talking past each other.
