Pretty much what it says on the tin, but for more context. My friends and I use Discord to play D&D and other TTRPGs. We also use it to send memes and just have conversations. We mostly do the chat, text, images, gifs, etc. But we also use the voice and video chat pretty regularly too. Screen share sometimes as well. So I’d like to try to find something that has all those features if possible.
The new ID or facial recognition requirement they are implementing is a deal breaker for a few of us, and so if I can set up some kind of alternative to make it a non-issue, I’d like to.
I’m running Ubunutu 22.04 LETS, AMD 3700X, 64GBRAM, 10x 6TB HDD, and and 2 4TB NVmE. Have a 2gb up/down internet connection. So I don’t think we should have any issues making it work smoothly for 7 people.
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Any Matrix clients support screensharing?
Element and Element Call, although no streaming audio support on the horizon anytime soon.
Matrix hoster here.
I would recommend Matrix as it has pretty much everything, including cross platform clients, threads, voice/video calls, screensharing, spaces (aka servers), federation and E2EE. Matrix also has bridges for Discord and pretty much every other service so this could ease transition…
But self hosting requires reading the docs and having some in depth knowledge and understanding as it can be quite complex.
I would recommend just creating a Matrix account on one of the common global servers and testing it.
If you want to self-host there are some pre-defined setups available (example) but I would still recommend to bring at least 5-10 hours.
Regarding operations: It’s really resilient and barely ever breaks and also doesn’t need a lot of resources. A 1-2vCPU server with under 1GB RAM server is enough for less than 10 people.
You se knowledgeable on this, so I hope you’ll allow me to ask this.
I don’t know anything about Discord, but I selfhost the Mattermost chat system for my family. They, too, are narrowing the free tier.
Can Matrix replace Mattermost for a family? Several separate “rooms” for various topics, plus 1-to-1 chats.
If it’s just chatting with your use case: definetly yes
E2EE group chats on matrix seems to be a huge problem still. I look forward to their MLS implementation. Hopefully that fixes a lot of these UX issues.
may i ask which homeserver and client you use? it seems like synapse and element is not the best choice especially for small number of people.
synapse and element/schildi-chat work quite well for me :)
On mobile the newer Element X clients usually lack some features (like calls) but you can use them quite well for chatting.
The Mastodon founder, Eugen Rochko, has just announced that “We’ve moved our internal communications from Discord to Zulip at Mastodon”.
https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/116041405748460511
Zulip is probably more focused toward work than TTRPGs, but it can’t hurt to try it. (I haven’t tried it personally, yet.) It is self-hostable.
Five years ago, a open-source project I worked on moved to Zulip (from Slack) and it was a small hurdle. But after a month, I really like it!
So much that I’ve pushed a few other open source projects (who lived on Discord).
I was really surprised when I started a new job two years ago and THEY used a self-hosted Zulip. It’s everything Im used to on Slack.
Discord has team speak/video sharing, which I don’t think Zulip has. But then again, we use something else for video calls.
Zulip integrates with Jitsi, Zoom, and Bigbluebutton for voice and video chat. Looks like a sensible solution.
It’s a shame, zulip doesn’t have e2ee. not even DMs. but they seem to be working towards federation of some sort? there are no good/perfect solutions out there.
For e2ee, neither does Discord, nor Stoat, which is what most of these comments are pushing people towards.
Zulip is great… on a PC. On mobile is a totally different thing, and not in a good way. 😕
What was the problem with Zulip on mobile did you have?
I only use it for text chat, so I’m curious.
Basically, the interface, or the almost lack of it. You use Discord on a PC or mobile and the experience is pretty much the same. On Zulip this does not happens. It’s a totally different experience with several things lacking, like the folder organization, for instance.
Discord on mobile
Zulip on mobile
I’ve always found the Discord ui on desktop and mobile to be really bad, just very busy and unintuitive.
Matrix is an option but it’s slow and breaks all the time. I’m a big fan of XMPP myself but good luck convincing anyone else to make an account 😔
Dont knock matrix for being slow, it updates just as fast as anyone else’s network speed is and it is focused on encryption and security. Given [gestures broadly to everything these days] people moving away from major platforms should really take into account their digital footprint and privacy.
So do you have to have an account on a specific server and then get the client or get the client first? I can’t recall how to do it any longer.
Its pretty similar to Lemmy or anything else in the fediverse, someones full user name includes their home server.
Your admin just needs to have configured the service to except comminication from other servers and not just its internal users.
could you recommend a good xmpp setup? i heard good things about snikket, maybe something else too?
There another thread about discord requiring a face scan next month,so I think alternatives might start getting pushed.
Such as https://stoat.chat/
Edit: Not sure you can self-host it, but it does have a back end server listed in it’s source code with a docker, however it might just be for code testing.
Right RTFM… https://github.com/stoatchat/self-hosted yes you can self-hosted it.
To create an invite you:
# drop into mongo shell docker compose exec database mongosh # create the invite use revolt db.invites.insertOne({ _id: "enter_an_invite_code_here" })That’s pretty jank.
Also - I’m getting pretty fed-up with self-hosting documentation that assumes very specific environments and goes into detailed configuration for that environment. Don’t tell me how to setup a server and how to enable/configure SSH and setup UFW as part of setting up your software. Just tell me how to setup your software and what ports it uses.
Bummer that it doesn’t have voice chat yet in the self hosted version. Hopefully soon - I would probably switch if they had that.
Wait, requiring a face scan of everyone?? I know they started doing that as an age verification thing for some people, but everyone?
Your correction is accurate. I should have been more specific.
Discord announced on Monday that it’s rolling out age verification on its platform globally starting next month, when it will automatically set all users’ accounts to a “teen-appropriate” experience unless they demonstrate that they’re adults.
Users who aren’t verified as adults will not be able to access age-restricted servers and channels, won’t be able to speak in Discord’s livestream-like “stage” channels, and will see content filters for any content Discord detects as graphic or sensitive. They will also get warning prompts for friend requests from potentially unfamiliar users, and DMs from unfamiliar users will be automatically filtered into a separate inbox.
Less a correction, more a question. I’d heard about them doing it in some countries, I didn’t see the post where it was going to be international.
Yeah. Solid chance I’m dropping the few discord-related things I do use here soon.
sigh
That doesn’t sound like it is necessary for private chat, the only thing I really use it for. Would be nice to have an alternative all the same
It does lead to slippery slopes. First, it’s to block “adult content”.
Then, they’ll consider certain topics “adult”. News about current events? LGBT content? Video games with some violence in it?
Facebook is an example of this slippery slope. And for parts of the country, they do need to scan an ID.
Check out https://stoat.chat/, it’s the closest self hostable group communications platform to Discord.
Is there a significant benefit over matrix?
From what I can tell, the only benefit is that the platform is close to the Discord experience. So people migrating to Stoat would feel right at home.
But there’s no federation, no e2ee, apparently it’s difficult to get voice setup if you self host…
Matrix has it’s issues too. Goup chat e2ee is not good. No one uses it. But at least they’ve got federation.
https://continuwuity.org/ seems like a decent server to run if you want to run a matrix server.
Honestly the name choice adds difficulty in getting friends to take it seriously. Why did they pick “stoat”
The name doesnt matter
IRC is a stupid name too, unless you know what the letters stand for
Msn messenger was stupid
Icq was stupid
Wtf even is “skype”?
It just has to be unique
And a Stout is kinda cute
This whole “FOSS names are bad” sounds like a Mccarthyism sysop by this point. Like, really, who is pushing that crap?
Nowadays everyone accepted the name “Discord” but I think it’s a pretty poor choice of branding too.
A communication app called Discord is pretty weird too.
A stoat is a pretty cool animal.
I think without prior knowledge of any voice chat Discord would probably rate worse in perception than Stoat.
Nowadays everyone accepted the name “Discord” but I think it’s a pretty poor choice of branding too.
A terrible name for an app meant to facilitate communication. Always baffled me. But the name is so widely recognized that nobody thinks twice about it.
I always thought Noosphere would make a cool name for a Discord replacement, especially if it incorporates a way to permanently catalog the knowledge accrued by the community, say as a built-in wiki. That might actually make it viable as a support platform.
you mean unlike the tools discord has replaced, such as “mumble”, “ventrilo”, “roger wilco” and “trillian”?
Mumble is a verb like chat but what the fuck has a stoat got to do chatting?
now do the other ones
Do them yourself and you want to copy all those failed apps, lmao.
Mumble is great and I still use it. None of those are failed apps.
Not every app seeks to rake in teenagers’ parents’ money with shit like premium emojis.
So, where are all the posts saying, ‘self-hosted ventrilo?’
Discord never replaced mumble. The two are in different circles.
Unironically yes
soundn like a problem with your friends then. who doesn’t love a stoat?
I know, it’s picky lol. I’m still considering it as the replacement for my discord groups (also checking out Element/Matrix). The average users aren’t going to be up for swapping around a lot of platforms, so I am hoping to make one big push on the platform of choice. “Revolt” would have gotten less “wtf is that, how do you even spell it?” than “Stoat”
Xfire
No clue! It was revolt before. I think they had trademark issues with that name. What’s wrong with stoat?
I was wondering why I want getting any updates, checked thegithub a few months ago and found out they rebranded. Haven’t had a chance to try the latest version out yet
seems like they had a decent name ‘revolt’ but got some cease and desist and didn’t resist and decided to switch.
What do you meeaaan? Stoats are fucking adorable!
Just a fair warning in reply to this that the self-hosted version of Stoat doesn’t currently have voice chat. It’s an open issue that’s currently paused until they can finish their rework.
If you have the skill for it, it seems like you can patch work the existing voice chat back in, but it’s not part of their initial setup and there’s no instructions on how to do so properly
Link to their voice chat implementatoon.
Looks like you can enable it on self hosted version. Probably worth someone trying it out personally. Before giving up on stoat.
sadly, it’s a little more complex than just enabling it. The supported self host deployment uses docker, and the docker containers that are available don’t contain the interfaces for voice or video calling as they are not up to date.
If I understand it right, to enable it would mean you need to either pull the source yourself and run it off of docker, or make a custom docker image using a version of stoat web that contains the ability to do voice calls.
reading the draft of the linked issue, it looks like the author isn’t doing voice call for the reason that they don’t know the proper way to integrate it into the docker image.
So to answer it: yes it looks like you can use voice servers on the current self hosted model, but you can’t use pre-existing docker images, and it will require you to manually add the new web UI in and patch where needed.
Is there a docker-free build you can either install and mod to re-enable voice, or use to mod the docker blobs in accordance ?
Turns out they also don’t support federation or e2ee. If those are things you care about.
Well that seems like a fairly big deal.
Where is the documentation for self-hosting it?
Check their GitHub. Although it looks like GitHub is having issues right now.
has anyone tried their iOS client? from their description it seems like it’s less mature than the android version, kinda concerning as my friend group has some iphone users.
The main issue is you’ll never get the cretins that use it off it. Communities… they’re just sitting there burning the library of alexandria… all the esoteric knowledge they’re “putting on discord” is just gonna vanish.
over a billion in vc funding and discord is as shit as it is.
As an archivist and data hoarder I hate discord with a burning, visceral passion.
Are there any groups we can join as archivist / hoarders?
Sure, a good place to start is ArchiveTeam
https://tracker.archiveteam.org/ https://wiki.archiveteam.org/
It’s funny you mention the VC funding. As far as I can tell, it’s only made it worse. Discord would have done great if they just kept expectations low. Instead, they’re now expected to create massive returns. That must come at the cost of consumers. I hope consumers get tired of it and leave, or someone else comes offering the simple service Discord used to provide.
Mmhmm, its also not early round funding so… where are they gonna get 3bn to pay back their investors? Or even break even at 1bn?
Yes, enshittification of Discord has started a while ago, and it’s becoming worse.
Call them cretins all you want, Discord in a great piece of software and very powerful. The usability is better than most others.
Its a usability and information discoverability is a nightmare and its continuously probing my system in ways that I don’t want it to.
The usability is complete and total ass unless you’ve grown up knowing no better.
Edit: Also, its full of toxic ass communities with stupid little kingdoms they’ve set up.
Is it worth preserving though?
So much tech support has moved to Discord. That’s worth keeping around.
I would take a look at TeamSpeak or Matrix.
Of the two Matrix is probably the closest to Discord.
Self hosting a Matrix server was daunting when I first looked into it, so concerns over it being difficult to deploy are pretty founded. But that changed when I discovered this repo. This makes quick work of getting one spun up, but the true gem of this is their documentation. They’ve probably got the best documentation I’ve ever read that explains the “why’s” and not just the “how’s”.
I’m hosting a matrix server it was rough but not impossible. Using conduit as the backend. Now that the setup is finally done it was so worth it. I would do it again if needed. Coturn was easy to set up along side it.
Haven’t found one that’s as good yet personally…
@Vaggumon I think the nearest thing might be matrix…someone else might know other stuff
Teamspeak
TeamSpeak 6 maybe. Don’t know where they’re up to on it at the moment kinda lost the thread a while ago.
@Vaggumon check out https://stoat.chat/
