It never made sense to me to put password managers in the cloud. Regards to what you intend it to do, you’re making it accessible to a wider audience than necessary. And yet, I’m using iCloud. It’s time for a change.
I’m thinking of just running a locally hosted password manager on my home server and letting my devices sync with it somehow when I’m at home. I have a VPN into my home network when I’m away that automatically triggers when I leave the house, so even that’s not that big an issue, but I’m really not familiar with what’s gonna cleanly integrate with all my stuff and be easy to use. All I know is I wanna kill the cloud functionality of my setup.
I already have a jellyfish server so I figured I would just throw this onto that. Any suggestions?
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KeepassXC + Syncthing. Using for 2+ years no issues. Have separate database files for each device and merge them as needed.
I do the same thing on my laptop and gaming PC. My only beef with KeePassXC is that they refuse to implement WebDAV, despite the OG KeePass having it. Otherwise it’s fantastic.
I use KeePass (Keepass2Android, KeePassXC, OG KeePass, and KeePassium) for everything. Been using KeePass in general for 20-ish years.
Recently, I decided to export all of my passwords from Firefox, Chrome, and Edge, import the data into my KeePass database under their own folders, then delete everything from the browsers. That way I can move entries that weren’t already in the database to their respective locations in the database hierarchy, delete duplicates, and change insecure passwords.
The database is hosted on my phones (work and personal), laptop, gaming PC, and a server at home, all synced with Syncthing. My work laptop also has Portable KeePass that accesses the database via WebDAV to my server.
This is what I did. Once Firefox did something and wiped my passwords from sync only way I got them back was I had an old laptop I didn’t use often that was synced to my account. Now I use keepass that’s saved locally and a backup on my nas & flashdrive.
This
x10
I look at it like this:
- I don’t absolutely trust the security of my server. Sure, it hasn’t had a breach…yet, but that possibility is inevitable, given the amount of bots that keep trying to get in by the minute. It’s secure, yes, but is it secure enough to entrust the keys to my bank account, my business ventures, et al? IF somebody got the key to my Lemmy account, it would be bothersome, but not cataclysmic since all online accounts are silo’d with only a couple that are linked.
- Bitwarden spent a lot of time and money building a large infrastructure that is, imho, far more secure than my little server. Bitwarden has a pretty good track record. They have had some vulnerabilities, even as recent as '23 but these have been remediated.
- Confirmation bias…I’ve been using Bitwarden for untold years now and have never had an issue, other than the recent UI theming schema that was so castigated by users that they offered a way to switch back.
While hosting my own password manager would fit right in with the rest of my selfhosting, I think sometimes it’s better to defer to more secure options when dealing with highly sensitive data.
Bitwarden is absolutely solid,yes.
Local server wise: If OP uses it in a local only setup behind a proper VPN implementation from my point of view the risk is acceptable. It’s not that hard to secure a home server in a way that Vaultwarden is not at risk - and when you’re so compromised that it is, then the attacker can easily use other vectors to gain the same data (RAt,keyloggers, etc.)
I switched to Bitwarden after the LastPass stuff a couple years ago, and I just got around to installing Vaultwarden on my TrueNAS system at home. Using a single Cloudflare Tunnel to handle secure external connections for that and other services like Emby easily. Took a little bit to setup following some guides, but has been working flawlessly for me and some friends. You can use the regular Bitwarden apps and extensions since they natively support self hosting.
If you’ve been using passkeys, you’ll need to generate new ones when you switch. AFAIK, they aren’t exportable from Google or Apple. Which, among other reasons, is why I’ll just stick to high-entropy passwords. I’ve had some sites like Amazon try to sneakily make me register passcodes, I’ve had to go back and tear them out before they screw me somehow.
try to sneakily make me register passcodes
Can you expand on this? I’m not sure what this means. Is it like instead of a full fledged password, just a four digit PIN or something? Thanks.
For some reason, when I registered my phone number for delivery notifications, it made a passkey and registered it with my account. It never prompted me to save the passkey, so I had no idea where it was supposed to be used. I immediately deleted it because I was concerned I wasn’t going to be able to log in if I logged out without knowing what that passkey was and had it in my password manager.
Sandpass on sandstorm
It’s dated, but phenomenal (and secure)
Why not use KeepassXC? It’s a completely local encrypted db but it integrates with cloud storage apps like nextcloud for sync. It has plugins for integration with Firefox and KeepassAndroid is pretty smooth on the current Android OS.
Any iOS app?
this one, OP. no need to introduce the horror that’s a:
- hosted app (why?!)
- client app is electron crapware
- the client app doesn’t even have full functionality, you have to use the web UI for some tasks
edit: I’m obviously speaking about the bitwarden/vaultwarden horror. keepassXC is none of them things.
KeepassXC is the only thing that makes sense to me.
I don’t want all my passwords stored with some huge target like lastpass or bitwarden.
Encrypted local (and synced) DB is the only way.
Yup this is the way. The resulting .kdbx database file is encrypted so you can even synchronize it over an untrusted provider. Otherwise you can use something like syncthing to keep it strictly peer to peer.
Is the data super important to you?
Let someone else host it.
Bitwarden in the cloud.Edit: Bitwarden paying the monthly/yearly fee to BW. I wasn’t implying trying to host it yourself in the cloud.
Passwords are one I happily pay for someone else to worry about
That’s about my most valuable digital data
+1 to this; Time spent on your setup is an important factor too.
The more important your data is, the more time you are going to need to spend maintaining your system to ensure security, backups and fail-overs. Not everyone has luxurious amount of time to spend on their home-lab everyday.
I did self-host bitwarden and it’s not that bad to keep updated and running after initial setup (including backups obviously) but it still requires some time and effort to keep it running. And as I was the only user for the service it just wasn’t worth the time spent for me (YMMV) so I switched to their EU servers and I’ve been a happy user ever since.
What I should do is to improve local backps on that, currently I just export my data every now and then manually to a secured storage, but doing it manually means that there’s often too long time between exports.
I use GNU pass synced through an internal Gitea. Have wireguard to sync remotely. Works pretty good, I would recommend not setting an expiration on the key, the git history keeps the old encryption anyways.
This is the way to go… though I’ve moved from pass to go pass which is basically the same thing but written in go and looks to be better maintained… also moved from gitea to forgejo since I think gitea has had some maintainer changes over the last couple of years that may not have been in the spirit of remaining fully FOSS
If you’re happy with how Apple Password works for you, I can recommend StrongBox. It keeps all data in a KeePass2 database and integrates into Apple’s AutoFill API. That means it feels almost native when using it. No browser plugin needed. (At least not for Safari.) And you can decide how you sync the database file.
i have keepass on only one device. i don’t mind looking up individual passwords and typing them in manually when on other devices.
on the device which hosts keepass, the app is hidden and hoops must be jumped to reach it.
i back up the encrypted password database once a month to a cloud service as insurance against me losing that one device.
it’s not the most convenient setup but i sleep so much easier for it.
If you don’t have a hard requirement of it being fully (!) OpenSource, then I would recommend Enpass. Relatively pleasing UI that runs native on Win, Mac, Linux, Android and iOS. It has browser plugins for Chrome and Firefox that talk directly to the running fat client (so no multiple authentication with different browsers necessary).
The password db is completely local, but it offeres several sync mechanisms like WebDAV or Dropbox or also iCloud; basically whatever can store files. If it’s a NAS in your home, it simply will sync once you are back home.
It also offers “WiFi Sync”, in which case you designate one machine running Enpass as the server and link other clients to it, then you don’t even need to run a separate hosting for it (but that machine needs to be on and running Enpass when you want to sync, obviously).
It’s basically a less open but much more convenient and beautiful KeePass(XC).
I used enpass for years and was a happy user. one day it prompted me for some re-authentication bullshit security theater. although in that instant it was an easy task, took me all of 10 seconds, it demonstrated a scary amount of power they had as I couldn’t bypass it and access my data. from that point on, its days were numbered.
the second issue is the export functionality that was seriously lacking and I had to resort to 3rd party converter tools to convert it to keepassXC; no way that flew by their QC, it had to be intentional.
On mobile I indeed also had that issue once. However I made sure they can’t lock me out completely. The db is stored using the opensource sqlcipher, so one can open it and extract everything manually, if absolutely necessary. As long as they don’t change this, I am fine. In the worst case that would still be a lot of effort for me, but not impossible.
The export has also improved a lot. You can now also export to JSON which includes all the data one could need.
It’s strange how I never see this mentioned anywhere, but there’s a way to get unique secure passwords for every site/app without needing to store them anywhere. It’s called LessPass, and essentially generates passwords based on 3 fields (site, username, master password) and works relatively well, because the advantages are quite obvious I’ll list the potential downsides:
- If one password is compromised or needs changing for whatever reason you need to increase a counter and need to remember which counter for which site (this is less problematic than it sounds, except in places that have a password policy that forces you to change your password periodically)
- Android can store the master password and use fingerprint to input it, but in PC you always have to type your master password which can get annoying.
- You need to change your passwords to this new format, which can take a while, and years down the line you’re trying to login somewhere and don’t remember if you’ve already migrated it or not.
You also have to keep track the site and how you spell it. For example is it “Microsoft” or “microsoft”?
And keep track of the current name of the site vs the old name. For example am I signing into Microsoft or Live.com or Xbox?
And keep track of my username. Is it my email? Which email? Which username?
I understand the concept but I think if falls apart fast.
Yup, but most of that is easily solvable by being consistent, e.g. always use lowercase and your email (even if it’s not the login for that site). But yes, you need to know to be consistent so it’s a good point to make.
I have more than 120 electronic identities, impossible to track the counter or to remember the tld of all websites I visit.
The concepts is only useful in a very small and defined scenario.
My point is that of those 120 probably 110 have never been compromised nor forced you to change the password due to expiration policies. The remaining 10 are the ones that require some mental gymnastics, so while the problem exists it’s not as serious as it sounds. I probably have more than 120 identities using this method since I’ve been using it for years, and I don’t think I ever had to use the counter, it’s a matter of being consistent in how you think about websites, for example if you know how you refer to a site slugify it and use that for the field, so you would use spotify, netflix, amazon-prime.
