They didn’t block them, they just won’t buy it until it has been on the market for a while
Asset allocation funds might still include it. Your Vanguards and BlackRocks.
I’m not the most financially savvy person, but I’m wondering if they’ll pass based on fiduciary duty rules. It would be pretty tough to prove violation for something like this, but the question is whether or not they even want to open themselves up to the possibility. I guess it depends on how close they think the bubble is to bursting and if they think they can justify the risk with potential earnings
The popular Vanguard ETFs will definitely have it, they do track CRSP and FTSE Russell (VT and VTI for example) - Both of which adopted fast track rules that will allow SpaceX to become eligible 5 days after the IPO. Unless Vanguard themselves decide not to include it in their portfolios (seems unlikely but you never know). I think Vanguard does have some funds specific to tracking S&P but that’s not usually what people use Vanguard for.
e.g.
https://moneywise.com/news/top-stories/elon-musk-spacex-ipo-crsp-vti-ftse-russell-nasdaq-401k
That could lead to some interesting outcomes, how these funds look in 12 months could indeed be tied to which specific index(s) they are tracking.
The very broad funds definitely will - VTI/VTSAX - but at lower weights and under less time pressure than the rigid index funds (VOO/VFIAX). That takes off a lot of the liquidity squeeze and (presumably) reduces their loss.
But you have to remember that people who use these funds intentionally invest in obvious losers and willingly overpay for hyped stocks because they believe, in the long run, that buying obvious losers is more than balanced by also buying the unexpected winners.
SpaceX is just the first time an oligarch tried so obviously to rig the passive investor structure to his favor, and I’m glad the S&P people didn’t cave.
This is good to hear.
You mean Vanguard and Blackrock ETF?
Might? Also, when other Ai companies are already counted in the S&P or would be redundant.
Good.
Fuck Musk.
But let’s be real they’ll just wait the standard length for entry. No big deal for them. If he needs more funds I’m sure he can ask the US government again.
I’ve already withdrawn money I had invested in US.
You can’t convince me this isn’t bubble:
I went 30% into international funds after the first recovery from Donald’s tariffs in spring 2025.
Been meaning to rebalance into money markets and bonds with how crazy this year’s been. This just makes me want to do that faster.
where do you put your money that is safe though
even eu will take a hit
If the US gets hit, everywhere gets hit. It’s true, but the further you are from the epicentre the better off you’ll be. Europe doesn’t have AI companies anywhere near the scale of the US, and they’ve been trying to divest themselves from American big tech because of Trump.
Investing in Asian stocks would probably be even better in some ways, but the RAM and flash price collapse that’s probably coming off the back of the US AI pop will hit them hard.
i don’t know that i trust chinese markets with how much control the party has over corps
i’ve thought about doing eu’s s&p 500 but comparing simulated returns this year is like a 12% difference
which does me no good if we’re left holding the bag but damn is this annoying
I was thinking more Korea, Singapore and Taiwan than China.
Yup. Highest it’s ever been and there’s no explanation as to why. Not a sensible one anyway, given most are in the shit.
Is it because for every american their only choice to get any retirement or any interest on savings is to put it into stocks? Followed by massive speculation that maybe (I dont know this part) is driven by machine code that not only follows trends but creates them by thinking if everyone is investing and line goes up, maybe this is where the money should go, which reaffirms the algorithm. Until it doesn’t.
Surely these two things are a factor. That and companies continually laying people off, or cutting costs, or selling data which give the illusion of making money when really it’s just juggling the books and has no long term future.
It’s because they keep printing more and more dollars and issuing debt, those extra printed dollars have to go somewhere and they buy more stocks with it.
https://en.macromicro.me/charts/28906/SPX500-Index-vs-Dollar-Index
People/mainstream media just assume stock market goes up means the companies are more valuable – for the past year or so it really just means the dollar has been going down aka inflation
Sure there is. It’s a pyramid scheme. It’ll work until until it doesn’t. The people involved are just really good at moving assets around to give the illusion that line keep going up. To keep it growing they move assets from other safer markets (pensions to 401ks for example) and have lobbied to not be taxed or regulated so more and more capital gets dumped in. But stocks aren’t tied to anything more tangible then trust of the people holding the stocks. So long as the stock holders believe stocks are valuable they are. But like any good pyramid scheme eventually they will run out of suckers to bleed for cash and then BAM pyramid fall down.
Makes sense. Cheers mate.
Yup I moved mostly out of usd, no stocks listed in the US, no US Treasuries.
I see either default or massive inflation or both in the cards for the US very soon.
I’m still invested in some US stocks, but I’m switching my US market exposure to an index fund that weights by actual sales, revenue, and other objective factors, rather than market cap. Companies don’t even get into the index unless they turn a profit first.
pls share
Which index is that?
I’m curious as well!
Moving your money to overseas markets isn’t going to protect it. Other countries are having similar liquidity and bond issues. When the bubble bursts it’s going to be world wide.
Yea I don’t know why people think that this AI bubble is just in the USA, this is a global race, not just a US thing.
Also fundamentals don’t mean shit when the bubble pops. Everything will come crashing down because everyone is panicking and knows that everyone else is also panicking. It will have a domino effect and even markets that aren’t even part of the bubble will get hit.
Agreed, but they shouldn’t tank as bad and businesses with healthy profits and a history of dividends should bounce back quickly.
It’s just not worth paying capital gains to pull it out of the market.
“Very soon” that’s what’s been said for years now. I too think this isn’t sustainable, but it sure feels like it’ll keep rolling for a number of years.
“markets can remain irrational a lot longer than you and I can remain solvent.”
Yup I’m definitely foregoing upside but I don’t want to be stressing about trying to find the best time to exit every day.
It is a bubble, but ……
- a bubble is a great place to make huge gains …… as long as you get out in time
- usually a few companies survive the bubble pop. Their stock price baby also crashes but then recovers to “normal” valuation
I sit out bubbles because I recognize them but know I never know how to get out in time. But I do know some who succeed in riding the wave while still coming out the other side
Tf happened in Spring 26?
We launched attacks on Iran to distract from the Epstein files, leading to the closure of the strait of Hormuz and dwindling oil reserves around the world. It was only like 3 months ago, I’m surprised you didn’t hear about this
Of course I heard. Last I checked war and oil shortages weren’t good for the economy
What you’re looking at returns on US stocks in Indian Rupees. So the sharp rise is US stocks going high + Indian Rupee deprecating against USD so earlier investments providing higher returns.
Motilal Oswal is a fund house:
https://www.motilaloswalmf.com/mutual-funds/motilal-oswal-nasdaq-100-fund-of-fund
US Tariffs on everything, feels like a lifetime ago already doesn’t it?
Wasn’t that 25? And again bad for economics.
Yep, me being dumb! I thought you were talking about the dip before.
IMHO what matters is the fundamentals, not technical analysis. Iff they had a breakthrough technology that was actually profitable, then I could believe a chart like that.
Here’s an even more interesting one:
It’s the P/E ratio (the ration between the stock Price of a company and it’s Earnings) of the Nasdaq vs the Price.
Notice how the Nasdaq price has tracked the P/E, with since at least 2002 the stock prices not increasing because company earnings are going up but rather just from increased speculation hence the rise in the the ratio of stock Prices to Earnings.
The P/E now (i.e. company valuations relative to the actual money a company makes) is now about twice as much as back in 2020.
Wow that’s a pretty wild statistic here. Is there historical precedent for this?
S&P 500 PE Ratio hit 120 in 2008, but thats because earnings collapsed.
It is even more extreme if you view the entire index history. The Covid peak looks almost benign in comparison and that was quite substantial but with a rather slow in rise and fall. Now, since the LLM bubble has been started, NASDAQ has almost doubled and in recent months almost feverishly. Nah, no bubble, nothing to see here, all based on reality. Please invest, we need to unload the bad money onto someone else.
The main issue as usual is US hegemony (or what’s left of it) has a way of fucking up the rest of the world. When that bubble pops it’s going to cause a whole bunch of industries trouble.
Hence why there is frantic effort in decoupling from USA and connecting with alternative markets in the rest of the world.
This is why I rebalanced into more international stock. The non-US indices have been doing very well for the past year or two.
US indices are obviously doing well too, but it’s looking like the trend of stagnant international stock growth is over.
Yeah fucking finally too!
Every fucking american crisis bleeds into our countries every goddamn time, but they? Let’s do worse next time!! No regulation!! War!!
Aaaahrg.
/Rant off
That wasn’t much of a rant, just normal extremely valid frustration in my opinion.
I have no idea what S&P 500 is, I assume it’s a stock market index for Fortune 500 companies? Anyway, for the sake of humour and laziness I’m just gonna pretend it stands for Salt & Pepper 500 and is a knock-off of Indy 500.
Why would this get downvoted so much?
Some people seem allergic to bad jokes, can’t say I blame them
Standard & Poor
I got the second half
S&P 500 (Standard and Poor’s 500) is a stock market index tracking the stock performance of 500 leading companies listed on stock exchanges in the United States. It is one of the most commonly followed equity indices and includes approximately 80% of the total market capitalization of U.S. public companies, with an aggregate market cap of more than $61.1 trillion as of December 31, 2025.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26P_500
Regardless of what you think about it, it’s good to know what it means because it’s like the financial thermometer of the US and what moves the world in a lot of ways
Not sure who the bags of douche downvoting this are, but good on you for asking questions and learning new things. Glad to see people in the thread are engaging with you positively in response.
yeah a lot of times i could just look things up myself but i feel like it’s much much more fun to talk to other people about it instead, hear their opinions and perspectives. i ask a lot of stupid questions on the fediverse.
When the race starts at the Salt & Pepper 500, they blast “What’s New Pussycat” and leave it on repeat until a winner is crowned.
based S&P
It’s not based it’s just that every investor can see that AI has no actual profitable future. Also no one wants to have anything to do with the company run by Elon Musk, he has nothing to contribute and tends to spend his entire time generating bad PR.
These are what we call financially sound decisions.
I don’t think the refusal has anything to do with those real reasons but more the arrogance of spacex in not following the rules for ipo’s.
’ S&P said “exceptions to the financial viability, seasoning, and IWF (investable weight factor) requirements should not be granted solely based on market capitalization”. To be included in the S&P 500, a company must be profitable under Generally Accepted Accounting Principles in its most recent quarter as well as for the sum of its most recent four quarters, according to one of the rules S&P left unchanged. SpaceX posted a net loss of $4.94 billion in 2025, even as revenue rose 33% to $18.67 billion.’
nice :)
For those that didn’t see the article from yesterday, the relevant rule that they refused to waive was the one that said a company must be profitable.
lol
Lololololol the president of my company went full AI shithead recently and he posted how it was a big deal that they were going public and he was talking about how he see it as a great investment to purchase shares and I asked how it was a great investment to get shares of a company severely in the red and my comment got deleted in a few minutes
Edit: we also got claude code for everyone in the company and they are monitoring token use (as in we need to use a lot) and I asked if they were concerned that the token price would rise if the board of directors of anthropic suddenly wanted to make a profit and that comment also got deleted (this was in a virtual townhall so we can ask stuff, usually they just ignore the ones they don’t want to answer but they were actually deleting them this time)
My last company they didn’t delete messages. That would be to obvious.
“I am sorry we didn’t get around to answering all the questions live. We will respond to the remaining by email”
No more questions were answered.
You know this already but your company management are morons.
is…your company publically traded itself? looking for an easy short
Sounds like they don’t want to go along with these sham corporations and their smoke & mirrors accounting. It’s like they want the companies in their index to be on sound financial footing or something.
Loooooseeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrs! Demanding fiscal accountability. HA!
The very idea!
Biased mfs
Who are you calling biased? S&P500? AI companies? AI promoters? Anti-AI crowd? Everyone? I’m looking for useful comments here. Let’s make the most out those data centres storing our posts.
Oh thank god
The only thing I’m gonna try investing in from this AI shitshow is China’s CXMT RAM since they have a good chance of shanking both Nvidia and the RAM thug monopoly lol.
Fatwa all those godawful techbros.
I didn’t know that the SNP500 had such rules, but I’m so happy they didn’t cave.
I hope people sue the indexes for changing the rules. Im not sure its possible but it really makes an index meaningless if its not consistent.
Nasdaq and Russel caved though. I don’t know if there is a way to avoid them in our 401k.
Every 401k I and my wife have had let us set which index, but would rebalance itself every year because they believe they know better. It’s really annoying, but if you’re familiar with the markets, I would say it’s very necessary. Especially since the default funds will often have fees associated to them.
I actually just went hella heavy on Int’l and value stocks, in order to completely divest from Musk exposure in my retirement accounts.
Which muskless and ai-less indexes u found? I’m working on the same
You should have the ability to select the investments in your 401k.
I mean, every company I participated in just give a menu of 20 or 40 mutual funds, targeting different maturation points or Industries, and people absolutely are allowed to pick which funds they want there 401K allocated into. It’s just going to require an additional 10 minutes of searching to find out how much AI diaper load is riding in your preferred funds, and possibly having to forgo growth funds and total index funds for some number of seasons.
Personally, I just moved to roughly 40% in Int’l funds despite ASML and TSMC being featured prominently, because it is still a net reduction in exposure and because I need the diversification (~10% a S&P 500’ value is directly exposed either AI or semiconductor, and roughly 33% of S&P 500 is straight Tech of some flavor).
We had a zoom meeting with my elderly mother’s investment adviser recently and expressed our concern about the AI bubble. He of course said he didn’t think it was a bubble; his main argument was “these CEOs are smart people and they’re legally obligated to preserve the financial health of their companies so they wouldn’t be going in for anything that had the potential to be a bubble”. Conveniently ignoring all the other bubbles in history when the CEOs were “smart people”.
Ah, yes, is this a portrait of her advisor?
Ah yes, Raymond gripping hands with James.
Completely unrelated, if you have chickens I hope they are doing splendidly.
World needs a lot more backyard chickens.
Excellent! Fuck Musk.
And while I’m not an AI hater, that is 100% the investors trying to cash out before the industry runs into trouble.
Yeah, it really is painfully obvious that the fatcats are trying to cash out on the bubble before it blows.
Orrrr its literally baked into the definition of what it means to be on the S&P.
I think you might have missed the original story. There was some fuckery going on with changes to the rules of what does and doesn’t get listed at IPO, seemingly designed to force the stock to (be allowed to) launch at a nonsensically high value on the indices, in turn forcing the least gamble-minded investors (which includes a fuckload of normal people via pensions, insurance schemes etc) into becoming bag holders for the most transparently greedy rug pull of all time.
I live eight thousand kilometers from the US, and have no vestigial belief in capitalism, and this made me sell my US index funds this week. What an irresponsible shitshow even if you believe in nothing besides capital, even if you are a true believer in this system.
The definition of being listed on any index isn’t waiting for someone to announce “I want each share to be worth ten trillion dollars! Actually no, eleventy billion dollars!” and taking that at face value. That’s why this is news. It’s not Mr Standard and Mr Poor sitting in an office and deciding they don’t like the stock.
You explained that very well. That was exactly what was in my mind when I posted that. Thank you!
Has the S&P bent this rule before?
