Pichai you fucking banchode.
Bloody fuck you bloody!
Google’s going to lengths and bounds to make people leave it.
Firefox users right now:
firefox became bloated so switched to chrome because faster/better. back to firefox last year. too old to keep fighting ads. thinking off button will be next. yeah addons mostly work
What’s “bloated” about Firefox?
Distant past. Few of us recall.
I think it was still called Phoenix when I originally dropped it. Before it got renamed Firefox. Came back around last year after adblock stuff in chrome finally chased me away.
I remember! 2.0 to 3.0 switch wherethe GUI slowed down dramatically. 2.0 felt like driving a sports-car.
I switched to Chrome back then because it ran tabs in separate processes. A tab crashing in Firefox would take the whole browser down.
The final straw for me was the plugins. Flash, Java, Acrobat, etc. Chrome kept them up to date for you. Firefox made you just through hoops, which eventually lead to a rogue site injecting crap onto my machine which took me a day to clean up. Plugins are pretty much dead now, but back then you needed them for half the web to work.
Chrome really was a great browser back then (and MS were still in the “what’s wrong with Internet Explorer?” era), and it’s a shame that they’re now working so hard to fuck it up again.
Chrome did a bunch of things absolutely wonderfully in the beginning. Fast JavaScript engine, removed title bar (tabs on top), simple settings page, sandboxed tabs, and they made some of the functionality of the most popular Firefox extensions the default (such as the downloads bar, instead of a separate window).
It was basically a pre-modded Firefox, but supercharged. Now it’s corporate slop.
nobody ever seems to detail what kinda bloat they mean when they say that, i don’t think they actually thought about it that deeply. nobody complains about anything specific like XUL support, for example.
In my experience, there was a period when Firefox crashed all over the place, especially under heavy load. Tabs shared the same process back then, one tab could take down whole the browser session when crashed. I vividly remember how it felt so silky when i switched to chrome. Now I am back to Firefox since 3 years. Firefox is the sexier now with all the shiny addons
Maybe in like Firefox 4 days
Yeah Firefox was kind of a hog around 2013. I have a netbook that I’ve kept around since like 2014 and I remember when I first got it, it couldn’t really run Firefox. Firefox would freeze up and crash. Funily enough today Firefox runs better on that 2014 netbook than chrome does.
I also had a high end gaming PC at the time and Firefox always ran fine as long as you had the reaources to run it.
Well, that was 2011, so…
that’s how I remember switching to chrome in the 00s. it had become unstable.
It was back before enshittification of the internet, when things were better. Was just big and clunky, chrome came along and ran very fast, until last few years, they swapped places.
And Google was still ‘nice’.
Microsoft, at least in my lifetime, invented the ‘embrace, extend, extinguish’ method, but google was certainly taking notes.
One of the many little compromises.
When will people switch away from Chrome to other browsers? I get it, Chrome sets the standards and it’s hard to switch away from them, but it’s necessary to ensure the survival of the Internet.
They wouldn’t set the standard anymore if nobody used them.
The W3 spec is dominated by Google’s submissions afaik.
A lot sooner than you think hopefully
I doubt most people even know you can change it. Edge is the default browser on windows. Chromium. Chrome is the default browser on android (though I suppose Samsung has a custom browser and they’re the main android device people are buying)
Ugh, any Samsung app is equivalent to internet explorer. Gross
The transition away from Manifest V2 is a good example of how changes made by major platforms can have a huge impact on developers and users. I’m curious to see how this affects privacy-focused and specialized browser extensions over the long term.
ublock origin lite, the natural replacement but not automatically enabled by google or microsoft. you have to go get it. https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home
an alternative is adguard’s browser extension. it is free to use and open source (gpl). https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdguardBrowserExtension#installation
No you get Firefox
Edge will soon follow. They announced it. Polly will switch to helium or brave
Or better yet LibreWolf
Or better yet LibreWolf
I cannot count how many things I had to change in settings to get the browser to just work right, I mean I appreciate them locking everything down to the nth degree but… damn. Finally switched to waterfox, the out of the box experience is a lot friendlier.
I tried LibreWolf for a little while, but too many sites just wouldn’t load at all with it, so I went back to Firefox.
Maybe give waterfox a look-see too
Brave is kinda shady with their whole cryptocurrency thing, Helium seems fine but it’s still based on Chromium. I’ve been recommending people check out Librewolf
Simple Firefox is perfectly fine.
Ungoogled Chromium is my standby for the instances when a Blink browser is needed, though it’s not entirely simple to set up.
Librewolf doesn’t do anything that Firefox can’t do with extensions + tweaking settings, but it’s nice to not have to install all the extensions
Yeah that’s why I’m debating brave. Firefox is good to especially after the huge engine overhaul a few years ago.
Yeah, I’ve been on brave for a few years but switched to Firefox because it’s a different base. I don’t think it’s necessary better, but if that’s the way the wind is blowing on chromium browsers the it’s the best option.
People need to stop using brave
People are not looking this deep into switching browsers lol.
They should tho
Zen-Browser
I’m using Zen now. it took me a while while to get the hang of the UI. But once I did I found it to be very nice to have those spaces that I can organize for different tasks.
First time hearing of Helium, thanks for mentioning. Sounds interesting, will be keeping an eye on it.
Anyone that uses Chrome doesn’t know what a clean non ad infested website looks like so they won’t notice the difference.
it seems alot of people are using brave as an alternative.
Vivaldi is quite nice as well
That four seasons is a real banger, unless you’re talking about having a press conference.
The Brave company is a far right hate group and Brave users are supporters of far right hate.
Fuck Brendan Eich and his henchman and all they stand for.
Not true. UBlock Origin Lite works just fine. They even recently added the ability to use content scripts so there is almost no difference between it and the original UBlock. Manifest 3 has had and still has some challenges, but you’re being so hyperbolic that I can’t take anything people like you say seriously. Might as well say… “I hate Chrome so much that I’ll make up random lies to prove how bad it is!”
This is absolutely correct.
Literally, the creator of UBO Lite disagrees with you.
Why are you like this?
Too much corporate propaganda
First, I don’t care if they agree with me or not. It is an open source project. They said from they never intended to try to make a 1:1 extension with UBO. They clearly lay out the positives of MV3 as well, and the scripts permission feature is a relatively new addition. You or anyone can contribute or fork it you want to add something.
I have spent enough time working on MV3 to know Chromium has solved a lot of the challenges. If you want to have a technical discussion about the APIs and differences or how you might do something with MV3, then let’s have the discussion. I never tried to claim MV3 is perfect.
I just have little patience for essentially non-technical cultists who go around spreading misinformation while acting like they know way more than they do. Prove it then… 99% of people like you never actually want to have a real technical discussion, because you spread your opinions based on feelings and not facts.
Prove it then… 99% of people like you never actually want to have a real technical discussion, because you spread your opinions based on feelings and not facts.
This is extremely funny that you’re trying to insult me, based on your feelings and not facts.
My only participation in this thread was that UBO Lite creator disagrees with you, which he publicly stated, but you felt… Offended? (No idea) - and decided to insult me rather than to deal with facts.
There is a word for people like you.
Troll.
This is extremely funny that you’re trying to insult me, based on your feelings and not facts.
My only participation in this thread was that UBO Lite creator disagrees with you, which he publicly stated, but you felt… Offended? (No idea) - and decided to insult me rather than to deal with facts.
There is a word for people like you.
Troll.
Citing gorhill’s disclaimer that uBOL isn’t a 1:1 clone of uBO doesn’t prove Chrome is “ad-infested”—it conflates advanced power-user filtering with everyday ad blocking. Many limitation were Firefox-exclusive APIs that Chrome MV2 never supported in the first place.
Under the hood, standard filter lists compile directly into native C++ evaluation via
declarativeNetRequest, while cosmetic element hiding and anti-adblock defusers run through thescriptinganduserScriptsAPIs. Furthermore, synchronouswebRequestBlockingis still built into the Chromium engine for policy installs. Pointing out the architectural reality of how these APIs actually execute isn’t trolling; it’s addressing technical mechanics rather than hyperbole.
I‘m a semi-technical user, I don‘t want a technical discussion, I want facts I‘m able to understand. If you‘d be knowledgeable, you should be able to explain it. You didn‘t, tho. You used a lot of words, but said nothing. Why should your arrogant, but empty yapping do anything for me?
You can’t claim to be “semi-technical” while simultaneously refusing to look at technical facts and dismissing platform mechanics as “empty yapping.” How a browser engine executes extensions is inherently technical. Claiming you want facts while ignoring the architecture just means you’d rather stick with an emotional narrative than understand how the software actually works.
Chrome MV2 never supported some features people claim were lost: Features like in-flight response body rewriting and pre-socket IP filtering were Firefox-exclusive APIs (filterResponseData). Chrome MV2 never had them, so MV3 did not take them away.
webRequestBlocking is not dead in MV3. Google did not delete the synchronous blocking engine from Chromium. It requires installing via policy now. If an extension is provisioned via local policy, full programmatic webRequestBlocking runs in MV3 just as it did in MV2.
Everyday ad blocking works normally. For standard Web Store installs, uBlock Origin Lite compiles the standard filter lists (EasyList, EasyPrivacy, uBO filters) into native browser rules. Banners, trackers, and video ads are blocked.
The original claim was that “Chrome users don’t know what an ad-free web looks like.” That is provably false. If you want to understand the issue as a “semi-technical” user, you have to separate actual browser engine mechanics from internet hyperbole.
Well, you don’t need to be a genius to imagine a concrete site without shit. Chrome users apparently love advertisements, trackers, pop-up windows and other similar things. Well, who are we to disagree?
I am Groot
Every time I do IT work, I ask to install Firefox
There are many choices and people still stay on shit browsers because of laziness.
I actually do a pretty good job of selling it. I tell them that I can set up Firefox so using the Internet is easier. I’m 3/5 so far
Firefox on Android has gotten quite shit as well. It just refuses to load sometimes and won’t open pages until you copy and paste the url in a new tab. Extremly annoying, especially for online payments.
That sounds like maybe you have something else set as default browser and instead of Firefox and that something is messaging it up.
I use Firefox exclusively and it works everywhere.
Unless, URLCheck (highly recommended) is somehow fixing this issue. But I don’t remember having it before either.
No, that issue definitely occurs in Firefox Android sometimes. The tab just gets stuck and does nothing. Has been happening for years, in fact, so it’s not something new. Might be due to some specific settings, but I like my settings and the problem doesn’t pop up too often, so eh.
Desktop Firefox also gets this sometimes, actually. The tab just doesn’t load until I bash ‘enter’ on the address bar, or create a new tab. Since afaik Firefox uses its Gecko engine on both platforms, the issue could be in the engine rather than the UI.
Honestly I didn’t recall anything where things are stuck.
Are you sure that the issue on Android isn’t caused by closing a link and the app opening Firefox in its context?
If this is such a percentage issue I’d there big open about it?
It happens within Firefox, without rhyme or reason that I could discern. I think it’s more common if I open a link from another app, then switch away from Firefox while the page loads in the background; or when returning to FF and it tries to reload a previously suspended tab. Firefox is allowed to load stuff on my phone in the background even when battery saving is on (which it always is), but I guess FF might get into a fight with the system over available memory, with the system killing one of FF’s processes/threads. Wouldn’t explain it happening on the desktop, though.
If this is such a percentage issue I’d there big open about it?
It happens pretty rarely for me, and I have no idea how it could be reproduced. So, I already barely ever open issues (by principle), and certainly won’t report this. Idk about others — wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a bug about this among the many thousands of issues that Mozilla has.
I use it everyday with no problems
I use it extensively, every day, with no problems
I have some problems with sites not loading, but I have 300 tabs open…
I have 300 tabs open…
Amateur. Try over 1,200 with the option to put those not used in a while into an “inactive” group turned off.
Hmm… Maybe that’s my last phone crashed & burned recently…
But I have the tabs open because I’m going to read them. Do you?
I run a portable version from an external drive to avoid installing anything.
Chrome? What is that?
The data pimp with a loading bar
A browser forked from KHTML by KDE
Isn’t that the shiny stuff you hang from trees in the winter?
No that’s tinsel
Oh yeah, Gretel’s brother
Nah, you’re thinking of Hansel. It’s actually an online community of people who can’t get laid despite really wanting to.
A thin layer of nickel on the surface of a metal to make it shiny and protect from corrosion.
Delicious when hexavalent
I used to work in manufacturing and we made a sort of tube socket that was cadmium plated on the outside and chrome plated on the inside.
I wonder how many people got cancer plating those things. Ironically, all of the platers were in California because it was banned for new plating centers in most other states.
Chromium is the browser that I open a few times a year for websites that don’t support Firefox. A few may be a gross over estimate.
Fair, I just abandon the site. It’s their problem not mine.
It’s really seldom, but a few years back there was a government website that only worked with chrome or edge that I had to use. I had one the other night and found a work around. It’s a rare occurrence, and usually I can avoid it, but sometimes I have to just suck it up, do the deed, and bail.
I don’t design web apps but I’ve heard for some that do that firefox occasionally has problems with them, because it relies a lot on caching (actually they used the term “aggressive caching”, with a few extra extra choice words).
Anyway, usually not a problem. I use edge only for work since it’s the default browser and I barely do any actual browsing with it, mostly light app clients. On my own devices, it’s been firefox only for years.
Nowadays, just changing the user agent would be enough to make the site work again.
Given how long ago this was announced, anybody still using Chrome doesn’t care.
I don’t use chrome, but this thread is the first I’m hearing of this.
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Yeah, pretty much this. In regards to tech, the fediverse often suffers from the average familiarity problem:
The average user barely even knows how to check their email.My empathy for this view dies on shit that impacts you every single day of your life. At that point it’s not a bit of information you just haven’t needed yet - it’s willful ignorance that I’m not giving you a pass on.
How long do I need to watch people crap themselves before I’m allowed to demand they learn to use a toilet?
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Oh wait, that’s actually an approach i never thought of, effectively people will do something more willingly if they feel excluded from the circle
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Or they just installed uBlock Origin Lite, which still works for most things.
it works for youtube too?
Big win for Firefox.
Firefox is Chrome with extra steps
That doesn’t even make sense. You bots need better prompts
Huh, do we have engagement bots in Lemmy already?
We’re thriving guys!
Probably just young
Maybe used Chrome for years before ever hearing about Firefox
Still time to delete this
Thanks for the laugh!
Care to elaborate? It’s actually not like chrome at all. The engine is different, it’s not Google, they haven’t blocked manifest v2 plugins… Other than being a web browser, how would you classify it as Chrome?
In about:config check with what google services, urls, relays, vpns browser communicates. What organizations donate most money.
Hardly makes it “Chrome with extra steps”.
Did you actually look inside?
I don’t have to. Yea, it shares some backend Google services, but the rest of the browser, like the other 90% isn’t Chrome. It’s like comparing Windows and Mac OS and saying that they’re the same because they both connect to the same Internet and that their operating systems. Just like Chrome v Firefox, they are two distinctly different products.
Not only are they different, Gecko is like 12 years older than Chromium.
I guess they could be referring to how much money Google throws at Mozilla to keep Google Search as standard in Firefox? Still, it’s a tenuous link at best
You can say that about almost every browser, but not Firefox.
I’ve never seen a more downvoted comment. This is true for every single other mainstream browser except Firefox.
Some forks of Firefox are ok, but if you actually dig and look inside about:config you’ll see with who it communicates, what telemetry it collects. What organisations fund it.
Lol no
Not really. UBlock Origin Lite works really well. They even added content scripts recently. From a technical perspective MV3 offers more security by default.
That’s a whole truckload of copium you’re consuming there, fella. Watch out for the side effects.
Clearly you’re the one struggling with coping.here
No, they’re intrinsically less secure.
They generate memory issues (
use-after-free, dangling pointers,double free(), zombie processes, uncomplete teardown, GC failures or abrupt stops, race conditions, etc.) because of their shitty isolation, and their poor service-workers and IPC architecture.What’s worse, they greatly limit the network APIs needed to active defense (DNR instead of
webRequest).No, they’re intrinsically less secure.
GrapheneOS disagrees with you:
https://grapheneos.org/usage#web-browsing
I agree however that Chromium has some issues still. I have personally managed to crash my browser when calling the Mojo APIs via JavaScript. However, it wasn’t related to security. As GrapheneOS notes, no other browser engine provides the same levels of sandboxing. Recognizing the effectiveness of Chrome’s sandbox, Microsoft began evolving Windows kernel access control to formalize and harden these techniques at the OS level. The upcoming Windows Updates implements this in its new ProcessContainer support.
Blaming process isolation and IPC for memory bugs like Use-After-Free and dangling pointers fundamentally confuses language-level C++ problems with OS containment architecture. Memory corruption exists across all C++ engines (Gecko, WebKit, Blink); isolation is what prevents those bugs from compromising the host OS.
Handing third-party extensions blanket permissions to inspect and modify live plaintext traffic across all tabs creates a massive MITM exfiltration surface. Moving rule matching to declarativeNetRequest enforces least privilege by executing filters in the native engine without exposing sensitive network payloads to extension code.
webRequestBlocking is not deleted in MV3. The synchronous blocking engine still exists in Chromium. If an extension is installed via local policy or the Windows Registry (ExtensionInstallForcelist), full programmatic webRequestBlocking executes in Manifest V3 just as it did in MV2.
Blaming process isolation and IPC for memory bugs like Use-After-Free and dangling pointers fundamentally confuses language-level C++ problems with OS containment architecture. Memory corruption exists across all C++ engines (Gecko, WebKit, Blink); isolation is what prevents those bugs from compromising the host OS. Yeah, but they instead greatly compromise the browser, and the problem is that these are not as likely to happen in MV2 (i.e., Firefox). Why? Simple:
- You have a long operation running inside an extension.
- Your system (or the browser itselfs) suspends or even kills the associated Service Worker.
- A new one has to be created.
- If the previous memory chunk goes unreferenced, then you have a double free and/or an UAF.
- If the previous memory chunk doesn’t get unreferenced, then you get a dangling pointer.
- Either way you get a race condition if it’s something concurrent.
The problem is, if an attacker and/or a malicious process do compromise that unreferenced or unallocated memory, then any and all sandboxing will be esentially irrelevant and thus vulnerated, vulnerating not only the browser (something that itself can compromise sensible information), but even the OS.
Then you have the zombie processes because the current memory model in V8 causes SWs to forcedly stop before they can do any cleanup.
MV3 is not about security at all, is about more control over your own computer and about more control over the network (that way they can let more trackers, zero-days, ads, malvertisers and even malware to pass because browser-level blockers and firewalls won’t be able to block them).
Handing third-party extensions blanket permissions to inspect and modify live plaintext traffic across all tabs creates a massive MITM exfiltration surface. Moving rule matching to declarativeNetRequest enforces least privilege by executing filters in the native engine without exposing sensitive network payloads to extension code.
You’re doing a false equivalence here.
It’s not about blanket permission vs. almost no permissions.
You can have granular ACLs (which are being hindered by MV3), or OCap/CapSec, or even other security and permissions approaches.
They’re or incompetent or malevolous, these are the only two options left when you think a bit about it.
webRequestBlocking is not deleted in MV3. The synchronous blocking engine still exists in Chromium. If an extension is installed via local policy or the Windows Registry (ExtensionInstallForcelist), full programmatic webRequestBlocking executes in Manifest V3 just as it did in MV2.
It is in practice. Not all users are able to do that (local policy install), as not all users are (or have to be) that tech savvy. That’s an exclusionary barrier towards inclusion and accesibility of security and sovereignity features.
In practice, I found it breaks sites more, lets some things through, triggers more adblock detectors, and doesn’t work as well with the annoyance list.
It doesn’t work on YouTube. And the maximum number of entries to block is limited.
Its not catastrophic though.
So UBO Lite is not wholly ineffective, no. It works great, mostly. Buts its definitely more of a nuisance to use, which is exactly what Google wants.
The following filter options can’t be translated into DNR rules:
strict1p, strict3p: whether a network request is same-origin as its initiator Entity-based values for domain= filter option (webextensions #394) redirect-rule=: the DNR API does not support redirect-if-blocked concept (webextensions #493) Click-to-load embedded contexts through redirect=click2load.html filter option Regex-based removeparam= modifier filter options Exceptions for all modifier filter options are not possible Workarounds exist for removeparam= and csp= by carefully tuning the priority property. Many very useful regex-based filters used in uBO are not allowed, or are rejected by the DNR API (webextensions #344) replace=, can't modify the response body (full support is only possible with Firefox MV2) ipaddress=, can't use IP address as a condition to block/unblock (full support is only possible with Firefox MV2) urlskip=, this requires programmatic steps to extract a URL from another URL (partial support, for strict-blocked pages only)aside from that it is somewhat better than default ublock but that’s a pretty big list of issues.
Some of those limitations were never supported in Chrome to begin with. MV3 still supports webRequestBlocking at the engine level but it is gated behind enterprise policy (ExtensionInstallForcelist in the Windows Registry, macOS MDM, or Linux managed policy JSON). If an extension with webRequestBlocking is installed via policy, it restores programmatic interception.
Not all users are able to do that, as not all users are (or have to be) that tech savvy. That’s an exclusionary barrier towards inclusion and accesibility of security and sovereignity features.
There’s also pretty restrictive length limits on filter lists iirc, so ubo lite would have to select top filters at some point. This getting worse as websites add more ads or obfuscate more requiring more rules.
Like FB putting every character in every [w][o][r][d] on the site into a unique code block
Thanks for the laugh! Keep telling yourself that.
I think I’ll be switching to librewolf at home. It can install mozilla extensions and comes with ublock origin baked in. Pulling a stunt like this is just going to drive people away from the Chrome environment. Corpos can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot.
Most people I know simply don’t care. They will use it because it’s convenient and they don’t care about the privacy dangers. I can’t comprehend it myself though. Drives me up the wall.
They will use it because it’s convenient
Using web without ublock is amongst the most inconvenient things I’ve experienced
I think most people who don’t know better just think that’s “the internet” and that it’s the same no matter how you access it. The whole concept of browsers and extensions is just not in the realm of concern.
I’ve seen some shift among the tech illiterate in my immediate vicinity, but most are still in the “I got nothing to hide” category of clueless twits.
The problem is that everyone’s internet experience is very different these days. Your friends might be boring and actually have nothing in their lives that need compartmentalized/obfuscated. It’s unlikely but not impossible.
The easiest way to demonstrate the problem would be when they show you something on an unprotected device you note the ads and give them shit for it. Those ads are likely targeted, and so your jabs would be targeted and personal too. Then point out that those ads are tied to THEM. Just ask every time, “have you been looking at X? Gross dude.” It doesn’t matter what it is. It’s the point that they are uncomfortable with your guess and it’s an opening to explain that, yeah it’s not just those ads buddy.
Funnily enough my two kids have expressed hatred of AI. It’s mainly people around my age or higher that can’t let any sort of convenience go even if shown the dangers.
Otherwise I’m just “scaremongering”.
The kids are alright, then.
My 14yo hates the current AI but says most peers are using it and can’t understand how to write an essay or such without it.
I think only some of the kids are alright. Many, if not most, are in trouble.
Fair. I said that out of hope. I’m young. Just 24. But I’ve always been progressive. I want younger people smarter, and not dumber than me, LOL.
I hear this nightmare stories of kids lacking basic comprehension skills. AI should be severely limited in educational settings, though not outright banned, as it can supplement learning when used appropriately.
People who share every intimate detail of their life online don’t care about privacy.
And i removed Chrome from my devices
so it
beginscontinues…
