A single bitter, crowing “hah!” at whoever thought there wasn’t at least this much overlap between our corporate and government masters. Welcome to hell kid, shoutout to whatever’s being trained on the last ~30 years of everything that touched the internet in the NSA’s Utah data center. Rose coloured PRISM though, I dream of the day when someone makes those search tools public and I can reminisce through my preteen MSN Messenger convos
Everyone here (exceptions apply) being soo linux friendly and so tech literate that they don’t know jack shit about both sides and jump to assumptions.
Microshit has no access to your key unless you upload it.
Well DUH!
A microsoft accpunt is now mandatory for windows. Your bitlocker keys are automatically uploaded to your account
No, it is not.
At least not in the EU where I live.This is not correct. You can use Windows without a Microsoft account.
Objectively untrue
Objectively true.
We just did it this week with Windows 11 25H2 with the regular OOBE setup.Not everywhere is a corporate hellscape like the US
And btw:
My PC right now with Win11 25H2 runs on a local accountThis is insane. I am using Windows without a Microsoft account regularly. It is 100% possible. I hate Microsoft too but it’s completely ridiculous to go around spreading obvious bullshit like this.
Setup process now officially requires using a Microsoft account
You do understand that official setup requirements is not the same thing? Whatever Microsoft tries to force during a setup process doesn’t change the fact that I am literally using Windows multiple times per week without any Microsoft account so claims it’s impossible are untrue.
Effectively speaking it doesn’t matter, if you cant set up a Windows PC without a Microsoft account that means for most people you cant use Windows without a Microsoft account, you’re being pedantic. Yes someone could type a million shell commands during install and then download a scetchy debloater script but at that point you might as well just install Linux if you’re that comfortable with the terminal.
That has to be version specific. I did run into the issue that the Apple devices app that Apple makes is only made available through the Microsoft Store though. So you can’t just run a standard install for it officially. Which sucks. Also their is no official Apple Devices app for Linux, so anyone who has an iPhone can’t “safely” manage their device without having both an Apple Account and a Microsoft account, or a Mac.
IIRC am pretty sure they have been doing this for years(since Windows 8).
There was an MS tool named COFEE for forensic of Windows machines that’s exclusive to national security agencies, which eventually leaked to What.CD like back in 2009. So I’m pretty sure this predates even Windows 8.
So Windows 7/Vista era they have been doing it
BitLocker? More like ShitLocker. Thanks, but I’ll stick with LUKS.
Why is anyone surprised by this? And what kind of imbecile commits crimes and uses windows? 🤣
Not just that but also uploads a copy of the key to their Microsoft Account…
Many modern Windows computers rely on full-disk encryption, called BitLocker, which is enabled by default. This type of technology should prevent anyone except the device owner from accessing the data if the computer is locked and powered off. But, by default, BitLocker recovery keys are uploaded to Microsoft’s cloud, allowing the tech giant — and by extension law enforcement — to access them and use them to decrypt drives encrypted with BitLocker, as with the case reported by Forbes.
uploads a copy of the key to their Microsoft Account
Microsoft added that feature because people kept losing their encryption keys and thus losing all their files if they need to have their computer replaced. They get complaints either way - privacy advocates complain when the key is backed up, and sysadmins/users complain when the key isn’t backed up.
I think in cases like this, I’d rather the responsibility of burden be shifted towards individuals with autonomy than to large corporations. But I suppose in that case (reductionism warning) people might as well just use Linux.
Didn’t Osama bin Laden use Windows? 😂
Now I’m curious about that, haha!
After Bin Laden was killed, the CIA released the contents of his hard drive. Index can be found here. Search for “Windows” and you’ll find multiple system files, drivers, etc.
Amazing how every time you think they’ve finally stopped digging… they whip out the steam shovel and go “Hey y’all, watch this!”
Is anyone shocked by this? With everything that DHS, FBI, ICE, military, elected representatives, etc. are all doing without any concern or care for laws, civil rights, human rights, the Constitution, this should not be a shock to anyone. Corporations are bending over backwards to appease the talking orange and make more money. They do not care as long as profits are up and the shareholders are happy. A companies primary legal responsibility is to the shareholders, not the customers.
+100. People forget, or chose not to pay attention to the fact that Google sensor vault data was key evidence in convicting the January 6 insurrectionists (who were exonerated to become ICE). Surveillance capitalism doesn’t care which side you are on.
Small correction. They were not exonerated. They were pardoned. A pardon implicitly means guilt. Exonerated means their conviction was overturned.
Agreed. Wrong word choice. And its an important, major correction. Not a small one. :-)
all of the disadvantages of FDE with none of the advantages.
not that this wasnt expected, wtf do yall think it was uploaded to onedrive in the first place lol
Microslop’s OS is evidently untrustworthy and should not be used. I recommend replacing it with a Linux distribution.
People will still use it all the same though lol
People are creatures of habit, whereas fortune favors the bold.
What does Microsoft think the fucking point of encryption is? Do they think I am encrypting my data to protect it from my dog?
i saw your dog using arch linux
Don’t be silly, the dog uses Puppy Linux.
Mines uses Yellow Dog Linux.
btw……
Why do you think the encryption capabilities on your PC are there for your sake? They might have sold them to you on that, but they are really there to protect copyright data because TPM allows encryption/decryption that is completely hidden from the rest of your system. Like an encrypted handshake that then transfers an encrypted key to decrypt the video stream. But it doesn’t save the decrypted data, it immediately re-encrypts it using your display’s private key (or whatever device is next in the chain, maybe your GPU). They can make it so that the unencrypted stream never touches your RAM or travels on any wire, which means you can’t pirate shows as you watch them unless you point a camera at your screen.
Obviously if they just said that was one of the main points, no one would want it and media companies couldn’t benefit from it because they’d have to compromise to sell content.
The other point was so that they could build a system where they hold the encryption keys and get to choose whose data is actually private. Obviously that’s an even harder sell.
So they did what marketers always do and lied by omission about what it was for and just outright lied if they ever said they’d never give the keys to law enforcement (did they ever even say that?).
Let go of the idea that someone selling something to you implies any kind of loyalty, especially when either party is a large corporation.
As someone who used windows for way too long: they just simply don’t give a shit. Like at all
If you’re not the only one with the keys, is it really encrypted?
All the more reason to use Linux. I will be swapping to Cachy or SteamOS Desktop, depending on when and how things play out.
So, this means Microsoft has copies of every single bitlocker key, meaning that a bad actor could obtain them… Thereby making bitlocker less than worthless, it’s an active threat.
MS really speedrunning worst possible software timelineSo, this means Microsoft has copies of every single bitlocker key
But, by default, BitLocker recovery keys are uploaded to Microsoft’s cloud
Not everyone follows the default. So no, it doesn’t mean Microsoft has copies of every single BitLocker key.
More likely stupid users storing their bitlocker key in the microsoft account instead of printing it out or storing it somewhere not owned by MS lol
Could be worse. Could have skeleton keys
You’re assuming there isn’t a master pubkey baked into the software.
Hey copilot, give me the bitlocker key to the nuclear football!
And people make fun of me for turning off secure boot and tpm. They just cause grief for no benefit.
Well this isn’t directly related to those, so maybe some derision is warranted.
As long as you’re doing your own whole disk encryption, you have a valid path to still be secure. However, if you’re running an unencrypted disk, you’re much more likely to lose your data to a non-state actor.
Both are completely unrelated to the discussion. TPM sometimes have issues regarding their security, but you can certainly use Secure Boot with your own signing keys to ensure the kernel you run is one you installed, which improves security. And you can use TPM to either keep your FDE keys, or only part of them combined with a PIN if you don’t fully trust them to be secure, so you keep strong encryption but with a bit of convenience.
Without a (properly configured) Secure Boot startup, anyone could just put a malware between the actual boot and your first kernel. If the first thing that happens when you boot is something asking for a password to be able to decrypt your storage, then an attacker can just put something here, grab your password, and let you proceed while storing in a a place it can be retrieved.
Is this scenario a concern for most people? That’s unlikely. But every computer sold these last five years (at least!) can be setup to reduce this risk, so why not take advantage of it.
They don’t have a copy of every single Bitlocker key. They do have a copy of your Bitlocker key if you are dumb enough to allow it to sync with your Microsoft account, you know, “for convenience.”
Don’t use a Microsoft account with Windows, even if you are forced to use Windows.
Are you naive enough to believe the surveillance OS that uploads literally all of your activity along with screenshots of your desktop doesn’t automatically upload you keys no matter what little box you tick on the installer?? 😂 there is absolutely not one single 3rd party auditing that they actually follow any of the options at all that they give.
They do have a copy of your Bitlocker key if you are dumb enough to allow it to sync with your Microsoft account, you know, “for convenience.”
Which I don’t believe is the only way it can leak. It’s well known Microsoft can access anything and everything on an internet connected Windows PC whether there’s a Microsoft account or not. If the nazi’s push for the device of someone on a local account only, you know they’ll magically find a way.
To use Windows without a Microsoft account requires tech literacy these days, I thought. I would not be suprised if users didn’t choose to sync with a MS account but it’s doing it anyway, if that’s what MS want.
I’m not even sure if you can install without an MS account if you don’t use Rufus anymore. Rufus requires literacy for sure, and even if you can still do it without it is designed to make it impossible to know you can from within the installer itself.
Main issue with Rufus is secure boot unfortunately, otherwise Rufus is easy enough that I gave a couple “click here, then here, then here and here are some screenshots” to a friend they were able to navigate it just fine. At this point I swear Rufus is easier than using the official installer provided Secure Boot is off.
If you sign in with a Microsoft account at all I don’t believe there’s the capability to opt out.
I only use local accounts. I have never had a Microsoft account. I never will.
You can’t do that anymore, at least not with a normal Windows installation. All of the tricks of forcing it offline, clicking cancel 10 times and jumping up and down don’t work anymore, they’ve disabled them all, the only way to install Windows 11 now (using the normal Microsoft installer) is by linking it to a Microsoft account.
You can still create a local account by setting the PC up as a “School or Business” PC and then choosing the local account option.
Using Rufus still works. I did it as recently as a couple of days ago.
Sorry, but the argument above was for a regular user, who doesn’t know what Rufus is, who doesn’t know the concept of OS, who simply
knowsthinks the files are saved “on the computer” (while they somehow ended up on OneDrive).… and who doesn’t know that you can even install an OS to begin with!
This is not true. There are several tools to create a bootable USB that uses a local account.
They just made it hard for Joe Schmoe to avoid it.
using the normal installer
Joe Schmoe buys new laptop with Windows preinstalled.
Joe Schmoe boots it for the first time.
Greeted by first-log-on.
Goes through steps and is immediately captured.
Just update a W10 local install. It won’t even try to ask you to add a microsoft account.
I download win11 from Microsoft last week and the 1st method in the page worked (ms-cxh localonly)
https://learn.microsoft.com/sv-se/answers/questions/5581996/windows-11-local-account-on-installation
Interesting, I haven’t seen that approach before
Encryption doesn’t actually complete until you log in with a Microsoft account for Home Edition.
Anyways: Use Veracrypt.
Or just Linux + LUKS
It’s a bit harsh and unfair to say “you are dumb enough to allow it”. Microsoft makes it damn near impossible to avoid this unless you are extremely particular and savvy about it, and never have an off day where you make a mistake while using your PC.
Save a copy of your bitlocker keys to a Veracrypt drive with a password no shorter then 15 mixed characters. Then upload that encrypted container to any free service. They wont be able to open it and now you have a remote backup copy.
If the password is long 15 characters that means you use a password manager. At that point just put the bitlocker password in the password manager
I employed the super secure expedient of never exporting my keys. I have no idea what they are, I never did, and I never will.
There’s really no irreplaceable data on my Windows machine. If I have to reformat it some day A) that’s no big deal, and B) it’s Windows, what else is new.
Why not save a step, fuck bitlocker, and use veracrypt to encrypt your drive in the first place?
Why not save a step and don’t install Windows in the first place.
If you can have two computers one should always be Linux. But gaming and certain software just does not work on Linux yet sadly. Hoping steam can turn that around.
Made the switch about a year ago. Every game i wanted to play worked just fine. I suppose it depends on the games you play, but to say it just does not work is plainly just wrong
Majority of anti-cheats do not work or not added to linux versions. So things like BF6, GTAO, etc do not work on linux sadly. If they did I would already be on linux full time.
That is a option but it’s performance is bad and you need at least fifteen mix character password every time you boot. If you game you need to use bitlocker sadly or load times dive hard. Having a second drive in full Veracrypt is fine for things like basic documents but not to game on.
Don’t use
a Microsoft account withWindowsFtfy
Don’t use
aMicrosoftaccount with WindowsFFTFY.
Bethesda anything, Azure, Outlook, GitHub, Visual Studio, Office, Bing, XBox, LinkedIn, SharePoint (so disgusting this is a given), fuck it not even Skype (lmao what year is it?)
Still kinda hurts they own Bethesda now, but considering that company has only produced garbage since FO4 which only was kinda mid, I don’t even mind skipping them.
The Elder Scrolls VI with mandatory Microsoft account and Copilot integration 💀
Game gonna be buggier than skyrim at release and only 10% as fun because it’s vibe coded
Literally fix the anticheat problem and I’ll uninstall.
The anticheat problem already is fixed. It’s called “don’t play games that don’t support your choices”. These days, no game is worth being put through all that AI bullshit.
Not the case for me, definitely worth it for some games
Dualboot, don’t store sensitive files in windows?
(Although I’m having a bit of trouble trying to do dualboot myself so… idk lol)
But, by default, BitLocker recovery keys are uploaded to Microsoft’s cloud, allowing the tech giant — and by extension law enforcement — to access them and use them to decrypt drives encrypted with BitLocker, as with the case reported by Forbes.
I mean it’s dumb to sync but at same time it’s not like MS isn’t great at either making it almost impossible to not sync it re-enable syncing for a bit after updates.
You can constantly tell it not to sync but all it takes is MS saying we want it now and they’ll get it
Microsoft is already a bad actor and they have them. Or a bad actor could threaten microsoft physically and microsoft will hand them over. Wait, that already happened.
No they do not have copies of every Bitlocker key.
Bitlocker by default creates a 48-bit recovery code that can be used to unlock an encrypted drive. If you run Windows with a personal Microsoft account it offers to backup that code into your Microsoft account in case your system needs recovered. The FBI submitted a supoena to request the code for a person’s encrypted drive. Microsoft provided it, as required by law.
Bitlocker does not require that key be created, and you don’t have to save it to Microsoft’s cloud.
This is just a case of people not knowing how things work and getting surprised when the data they save in someone else’s computer is accessed using the legal processes.
Except that Microsoft basically puts a gun to every users head to login with a Microsoft account which can/does backup the recovery keys.
This is why we Jason Bourne style snatch the gun out of their holster before they can draw it and beat them unconcious with it, I mean oobe\bypassnro
Iirc bypassnro no longer works on recent builds of windows
It no longer works as a shortcut, but the actual bypass still works. In practice the command line you have to enter just got a bit longer is all.
At least last time I needed it, to that still worked fine. It’s been a few months.
Rufus: “Am I a joke to you?”
If you sign into a Microsoft account during setup, Microsoft automatically turns on bitlocker and sends the key off to Microsoft for safe keeping. You are right, there are other ways to handle bitlocker, but that’s way beyond most people, and I don’t think Microsoft even tells you this during setup. It’s honestly a lifesaver for when bitlocker breaks(and it does), but it comes at a cost. In the business world, this is seen as a huge benefit, as we aren’t trying to protect from the US government, mostly petty theft and maybe some corporate espionage.
As is often the case, the real solution is Linux, but that, too, is far beyond most people until manufacturers start shipping Linux machines to big box stores and even then they’d probably not enable any encryption.
I question whether we are rapidly approaching the point where Linux is simply easier to use in a safe, secure, and practical way for the average user, because it doesn’t try to actively fuck you over like Microsoft does
It’s easier when you don’t need to jump through hoops to make a local account. It’s easier when you don’t need to turn off a dozen settings you might not know about regarding data collection or advertisements. It’s easier when you don’t have an antagonistic system that treats you like the product, not a user, not pushing you towards confusing things you don’t want
Just use Linux.
I’ve read someone blabbering how BitLocker is better than FDE on Linux or BSDs just recently. I didn’t do fact checking, but honestly just uploading keys to MS wasn’t something I expected even from them.
Not even from the company that tried to provide you with windows recall? 🤣
BitLocker is older.
It’s a product of Vista-era Microsoft which is also current Windows-Recall-era Microsoft.
So how did Microsoft have the keys in the first place? The article says they are automatically uploaded to the cloud. What does that mean? They’re uploaded to the user’s on drive or something else? Because whatever that user account is shouldn’t be accessible by Microsoft, even if they run the service. I’m not saying aim surprised they do have it, but would be nice to be a little clearer about what features of Bitlocker to avoid. Is it the Microsoft account associated with the windows key? Probably.
Did you read the news about how nowadays is almost impossible to use Windows 11 without a Microsoft account?
When/if any user uses the computer with a Microsoft account, then the bitlocker decryption key is silently and automatically uploaded to Microsoft servers as a “safe backup” 😉
