If a country needs to overly emphasise an ideal, that’s usually because that ideal doesn’t apply in that country (“Land of the free”, “Democratic people’s republic of …”).
If a person needs to subscribe to patriotism, it’s usually because they have never accomplished anything better in their life than being born in a specific place.
It’s actually a general rule for humans:
“I’m beautiful”
“I’m confident”
“I’m strong”
“I’m intelligent”
“No you’re not, if you were you wouldn’t feel the need to tell it to others because they would find it out themselves.”
When people or organisations unprompted harp about some qualities they have, it’s safer to assume until proven otherwise that they lack those qualities.
Yeah, that’s a fair generalization.
Idk, I feel like one failure of governments is not sharing the successes and having big discussions about what they want to be/do. Patriotism vs nationalism smbc.
I don’t really feel that that’s the same point.
For example, I live in Vienna. Public transport here is amazing. Housing is pretty great. Education is free and good. Public healthcare is free and really good. I’m going to keep voting and contributing to keep these things good. If things turn bad, the wrong people get into power, and these things will sour, that’s sad. But then I can still move somewhere else.
And no matter what happens with my city, it will not change who I am and/or how good/valuable I am.
And also, it really doesn’t matter how other places are doing. That’s why I really, really disagree with the “patriotism” in the comic. “I’m going to work on my house because it’s the best house” is a pretty stupid thing to say. Does that mean if your house isn’t the best, there’s no point to work on your house? Does that mean you think all other houses suck?
What even is the point of having the “because it’s the best house” in there at all?
I improve my house because I live there, that’s the right reasoning.
Idk, I feel like one failure of governments is not sharing the successes
That’s often the case, that’s correct. But that shouldn’t be done for the purpose of “because we have the best country/city/…”.
Be proud of the things you accomplish, not about where you accomplish them at.
I agree that the first panel is off; I would replace it with “I’m going to work on my house because I want it to be the best house it can be”, or something similar.
And, at least for democracies (or similar), one of their bigger failure modes is that people:
- don’t feel like they (do/can/should) contribute to the place they live;
- do not value the work that others do for the place and community;
- take for granted the natural resources, and don’t safeguard them for the future.
Consider how it is absurd for a normal person to run for public service, and how air quality has plummeted in so many places. I think it could be healthy to be proud of a group project you participated in. It’s a bit sad that countries/states/cities/neighborhoods so often fail to be such projects.
(Which I guess is all to say that we should gatekeep patriotic pride. That’s a weird stance I’ve landed in.)
That sentence would be better.
I think it could be healthy to be proud of a group project you participated in.
That’s totally ok, but it’s not really patriotism, is it? You are proud of an accomplishment. Of a real thing that you did/were part of, that actually changed something.
That’s pretty disconnected from patriotism, which means “I am proud of my country because it’s my country”. Patriotism is hollow. It’s being proud of something by default without anything worth being proud of.
Consider how it is absurd for a normal person to run for public service
In my country it’s quite common that normal people run for lower offices, like district or city level. I personally know at least 10 people who hold some lower level offices.
Thank you; I think I understand how you are using patriotism better. (Also jealous that somewhere has destigmatized public office.)
There is no difference between patriotism and nationalism. Both instill pride in non-achievements (like being born in the right place) while degrading others for the offense of being born somewhere else.
Patriotism is loving your country and wanting to do the best for it. Nationalism is the poison version of that.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with being proud of impersonal achievements. If one of your parents did something considered pretty great, I think it’s generally fine to be proud of it, even though you had no agency in being born to them.
As with anything, though, it’s very possible to take it to the extreme. If an achievement or value becomes your entire personality and you begin to actively disparage others on the basis of not-being-that, as you said, that’s when I call it one of the bad “-isms.”
I see nationalism as a range within that of patriotism, but starting at that extremist point.
This is absolutely it.
Nationalist patriotism is a religion that worships dirt.
Nice way to put it!
As a Moroccan, I can relate. We’re ranked as the most patriotic country in the world, but I honestly can’t see exactly why. Like, sure, we have cool cities and cool dishes, but we also have problems regarding the Healthcare and education sectors, tourist traps, immigration problems (both from outsiders living here and Moroccans living abroad), consistently terrible internet speeds, public sexual harassment on women, like how is this something to be proud of? And I haven’t even gotten into geopolitics, which is a whole can of worms that I’d rather keep unopened.
And you mean to tell me that WE are tasked with hosting the World Cup? That smells like a giant catastrophe waiting to happen.
It’s a very common thing really. The better a country works and the less the country has to compensate for, the less patriotism there is. And of course vice versa.
I thought it was just a coincidence.
Actually, it’s usually a Nationalist tactic to paint any/all opposition as being treasonous, thereby laying the groundwork for targeting them with the military.
Not gonna miss this chance to look educated quote
And for the click-averse:
The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.
-Credited to Arthur Schopenhauer
Turns out, Schopenhauer is more eloquent than me :)
That’s enough there, Patriot. Give me ten Pledge of Allegiances and a Hail Mary.
Whoa, you dont Trump or King Jong Un? Then whoz your daddy?
