Angela Merkel’s calm steadied a wounded nation — but it also put it to sleep. For sixteen years, Germany mistook caution for competence and comfort for courage. This essay dissects how the myth of …
whatever other reason I can’t know. But it’s telling.
It’s telling indeed, that you ignore the hegemonial influence of the US.
Lol.
I don’t believe in comicly stupidly greedy Americans. Why else should they have opened their markets?
Good for China. Why the constant whining then?
Because we argue the future of the EU.
Who says Europe should use American products?
Tell me where the engineers come from who create the replacements.
Currently I don’t. In the future, there might be a democratic US again I can prefer. China will only be democratic after its inevitable implosion, if it all.
If China implodes and the US is fascist, there won’t be a democratic China, nor a democratic EU.
I think that’s what is coming.
What gives you hope that the US would be democratic again? They are mimicing Roman history. China could as well become democratic.
The biggest chance for democracy would be both being equally strong and in need of the democratic states of the world.
China will only be democratic after its inevitable implosion
Why is it inevitable?
Shifting a dependency from one autocracy to another is not helping.
Please take a moment. There is a difference between shifting dependency entirely and becoming less dependent by creating competition with a second supplier.
By eliminating these dependicies, not switching them to China, obviously.
How? From where do you get the engineers?
When’s the last time you’ve accepted a truth that was hard to you?
What’s hard? The WTO thing was new to me. Yesterday I realized after half a year that I treated somebody wrong, which you can interpret as good or bad. I think I regularly change my mind.
you refuse to answer the question whether you prefer a strong China or a strong EU
Because it’s the wrong question. A weak China is a strong US is a weak EU.
A strong China is a weak US and a weak EU, unless China makes good on their goal of a multipolar world.
A mid China and a mid US allow a mid EU.
As long as you don’t tell me where the engineers come from I don’t see a way for the EU to become strong.
whether you prefer a strong China or a strong EU
That depends. An ideal EU and the current China, I prefer the EU.
If the EU goes full surveillance and fascism, and China balances that for the rest of the world, I hope for the rest of the world that China is strong, even if my life would be better in a Neocolonial EU.
It’s telling indeed, that you ignore the hegemonial influence of the US.
Who says I do? I just don’t buy the ‘useful’ fairy tale that China (or Russia) isn’t to blame for the effects of their own conscious decisions. One wanted a war of aggression, one wanted to allow capitalism and billionaires. No-one else to blame.
Why else should they have opened their markets?
Dollars, why else? You know, capitalism and such…
Because we argue the future of the EU.
Exactly. That’s why it is important for the EU to become independent of those “big players” who only care about themselves.
Tell me where the engineers come from who create the replacements.
As of 2025, the European Single Market is larger than the Chinese and second only to the US. I know it is a popular strategy/belief to paint Europe smaller than it is, but frankly, we are strong enough.
If China implodes and the US is fascist, there won’t be a democratic China, nor a democratic EU.
China imploding and the US turning fascist is no concern of ours if we are independent.
Why is it inevitable?
Look at the domestic problems it’s facing. The promise of evergrowing wealth for everyone will no longer be sustainable. The promise of a nation led by and benefiting workers already is broken. Let’s see what happens next.
Please take a moment. There is a difference between shifting dependency entirely and becoming less dependent by creating competition with a second supplier.
We already are supplied by China. We need less supply of them (or the US, just in case you forgot) to be independent.
If the EU goes full surveillance and fascism, and China balances that for the rest of the world
How? China is already leading when it comes to surveillance an oppression of its people. Just because they don’t call their oppressing autocracy ‘fascism’ but painted it (vaguely) red doesn’t make it good.
that China (or Russia) isn’t to blame for the effects of their own conscious decisions.
The art of creating dilemmas or catch-22s. There was no winning move for them.
Dollars, why else?
I asked you. I think they do things for long-term success and are not driven by greed alone.
become independent of those “big players”
Which is impossible with too few engineers.
but frankly, we are strong enough.
We don’t have key industries. Being stronger in 2025 is only temporary.
If we have the market but nothing to sell then we are just giving away our substance.
China imploding and the US turning fascist is no concern of ours if we are independent.
But we are not. Youtube and TikTok will make sure that the fascists will win the elections.
The promise of evergrowing wealth for everyone will no longer be sustainable.
That’s our promise. Are you sure it’s also theirs?
They are shifting to sustainable energy. Their population will accept ‘just’ a good life.
We already are supplied by China. We need less supply of them (or the US, just in case you forgot) to be independent.
Decoupling will make us source all our supplies from the US. Do you see the problem?
To be independent, we need the engineers. Have you noticed how often I have asked the question without an answer? (Our market is big enough is not an answer.)
How?
They have roled back their social credit system because it was too invasive. They can convince the world by finding a better balance than the West.
The art of creating dilemmas or catch-22s. There was no winning move for them.
Yea right, the evil US is forcing their hands again… and nothing those poor countries can do against it.
What stops China re-nationalising the means of productions of those billionaires and locking them up like a proper socialist country should do anyway?
What stopped Russia from simply not invading Ukraine if it was such a mean trap of the evil Americans?
I asked you.
I told you. You like to believe in clandestine and carefully executed plans that would require an organised and monolithic elite to work - I believe in the sheer hunger for money. One of these works far easier out of the box… do you know Ockham’s Razor?
If we have the market but nothing to sell then we are just giving away our substance.
Wrong. Giving in to trade with China is giving away substance. In your vision, we are only consumers, which will only further weaken us. In my vision, we stop the transfer of jobs and technology in these countries and only trade with countries that align with us.
Youtube and TikTok will make sure that the fascists will win the elections.
Just as China heavily governs the influence of YouTube and TikTok in their country, we can do the same here. If there’s someone trying to interfere here in the interest of a foreign nation, we can block them.
Are you sure it’s also theirs?
What else can they offer?
They are shifting to sustainable energy. Their population will accept ‘just’ a good life.
Hahaha! You might want to look up the amount of newly installed coal power generation in China…
Decoupling will make us source all our supplies from the US. Do you see the problem?
The only problem I see is you constantly repeating your misunderstanding that decoupling from China has to mean coupling with the US. It doesn’t.
To be independent, we need the engineers. Have you noticed how often I have asked the question without an answer?
What is your fixation with engineers?? And why do you believe we don’t have enough engineers to fulfil our own demand? Where are you from?
They have roled back their social credit system because it was too invasive.
Oh is that so? That would be the first time a state is voluntarily giving up control they’ve established over their population. How come you choose to believe them this story? Pinky promise?
What stops China re-nationalising the means of productions
Nothing, or the memory of the USSR and the opium wars.
What stopped Russia from simply not invading Ukraine
Nothing, as Brzezinski has pointed out. They could have worked on joining the EU and becoming independent with us.
do you know Ockham’s Razor?
Then explain why all billionaires accept Trump’s policies and haven’t started an uprising before the election.
In your vision, we are only consumers
No, we can offer products as market leaders in many categories. But we don’t have the manpower to maintain all basics. E.g. we can’t have our own chip production, or if we have it, it will be less advanced.
So we need suppliers and we need competition among the suppliers.
In my vision, we stop the transfer of jobs and technology in these countries and only trade with countries that align with us.
Who will trade with us? Can they replace USA and China? We are the former colonial power of many countries and we wouldn’t have the best technologies.
You don’t understand that you need manpower for each technology and the EU doesn’t have enough to maintain them all.
Just as China heavily governs the influence of YouTube and TikTok in their country
They have their own, Youtube is forbidden.
Good luck establishing an EU alternative without the content. The US will use their IP to keep the audience on Youtube. Music acts, movies, streamers, the alternative will be empty. Start banning VPNs. The state will become totalitarian.
What else can they offer?
Isn’t a solid life in a world leading country not enough?
Hahaha! You might want to look up the amount of newly installed coal power generation in China…
Right.
The only problem I see is you constantly repeating your misunderstanding that decoupling from China has to mean coupling with the US. It doesn’t.
Because you have a vision. Sorry for the slight mockery, I still appreciate that attitude. I just hope that you develop a more realistic vision.
How do we prevent the coupling? Please don’t make me reply with ‘not enough engineers’.
What is your fixation with engineers??
Or scientists in general. What else creates the products that can be sold globally?
Who creates the services, products and tools that we don’t buy anymore from China or USA?
That’s engineers.
And why do you believe we don’t have enough engineers to fulfil our own demand? Where are you from?
We don’t have enough because we don’t have the products right now. If there were bored engineers, somebody would have asked them to build our own products and services.
I know that we have decent education numbers. But how do we retain enough and the best?
Then explain why all billionaires accept Trump’s policies and haven’t started an uprising before the election.
What does Trump have to do with America enjoying the trade with China for more than 30 years?
E.g. we can’t have our own chip production, or if we have it, it will be less advanced.
Chip production is based in Taiwan. A democratic nation. We obviously will continue trading with them.
Who will trade with us?
We will trade with ourselves and other democracies. That’s what it will lead to, as we will experience a phase of reversal after the globalisation. There will be new economic barriers between the countries in the future.
You don’t understand that you need manpower for each technology and the EU doesn’t have enough to maintain them all.
What are you talking about? We live in an economic bloc of almost 500m people. Far more than the US. We have all the manpower we want.
They have their own, Youtube is forbidden.
See? So why do you think this will be impossible for us?
Isn’t a solid life in a world leading country not enough?
You’d have to ask the exploited Chinese migrant workers and others maintaining the Chinese economy under slave-like conditions.
We don’t have enough because we don’t have the products right now. If there were bored engineers, somebody would have asked them to build our own products and services.
I’m sorry, but this is absurd. Inform yourself about the number of engineers, scientists and other fields of profession you deem necessary within Europe. I have the feeling you again have a strong opinion without knowing the numbers/facts.
Judge for yourself
You know that the Social Credit System isn’t the only way the Chinese state exercises harsh surveillance of its citizens, right?
Because all countries are equal and the US is not motivating countries to align to their advantage, especially not a country so independent and not in need of military support as Taiwan.
bloc of almost 500m people. Far more than the US
The US gets the best engineers from all over the world. You can’t compare the numbers like that.
So why do you think this will be impossible for us?
Have you stopped reading?
You’d have to ask the exploited Chinese migrant workers
If their lives also improve, everything will be fine. To get ahead of your worries, I am not sure about that.
have the feeling you again have a strong opinion without knowing the numbers/facts.
I have seen the numbers some months ago. There were surprisingly many but less than in Russia, rellatively.
I’m sorry, but this is absurd.
Then please explain why we don’t have the infrastructure to be independent.
Social Credit System isn’t the only way
Yes. It was just to show that they have put a limit to their surveillance which suggest that they do it reasonably enough that other countries are not repelled by it.
That’s not how Ockham’s razor works. You try to explain something by having to resort to a lot of farfetched assumptions while there is one far simpler and easier. That’s why your assumption is unlikely.
Because all countries are equal and the US is not motivating countries to align to their advantage, especially not a country so independent and not in need of military support as Taiwan.
None of this has anything to do with what I stated: we will continue to trade with democracies. Chip manufacturing is located in democracies, so your argument about us not having access to chip manufacturing is invalid.
You can’t compare the numbers like that.
Sure I can. Your error is applying the current circumstances to what will be in a future with decoupled economies. Things will shift accordingly.
Have you stopped reading?
If China can do it, so can we.
If their lives also improve
Exactly: if. We will soon find out what happens if not.
I have seen the numbers some months ago. There were surprisingly many
There you go.
Then please explain why we don’t have the infrastructure to be independent
Because there was no need. We believed in globalisation and the benefits it would bring. Now the times are changing.
which suggest that they do it reasonably enough that other countries are not repelled by it.
Yea, however you got to that conclusion…
In any case, there are hardly any countries with a surveillance (oppression) stronger than in China.
So to expect them, the autocratic pinnacle, to become a role model when the US should turn fascist is absolutely absurd.
If you can’t tell that simpler one I must believe that it doesn’t exist. I would still like to hear it if you can.
None of this has anything to do with what I stated: we will continue to trade with democracies. Chip manufacturing is located in democracies, so your argument about us not having access to chip manufacturing is invalid.
The other side has to agree to trading, too. It would be enough if there is a 30% tax on international sales of chips from Taiwan but the US are excluded. Expect the US to be creative.
Btw, from which democracy are we going to get gas?
Sure I can. Your error is applying the current circumstances to what will be in a future with decoupled economies. Things will shift accordingly.
Do you want to build a wall? How about the rest of the world like India, who will not decouple from the US. Isolating Europe would be like USSR again that fell behind technologically.
If China can do it, so can we.
China has their own culture. It’s also a bit arrogant to assume that we can do everything China can do. Africa could do everything the EU can do and yet they are still not as prosperous.
You have no plan to prevent the US from influencing the elections but full censorship. People will vote for freedom.
Exactly: if. We will soon find out what happens if not.
You know that we have been doing, for years? China collapsing is a regular headline.
This is not a vision but a dream unless you have a hard argument and not just hope.
Europe decoupling from the US is much more difficult than China automating their production. China will thrive while the EU will crumble.
Because there was no need. We believed in globalisation and the benefits it would bring. Now the times are changing.
Like African countries lacking the motivation to build their own industries?
Look at Intel trying to create the next generation production process or VW trying to write an OS for their cars.
Without an EU AI, all knowledge is revealed to the US anyway.
Why do you think the EU was worried about Boeing and built Airbus, but not about IT?
But even if you manage to replicate everything, China will have a billion people while the EU has half. So China will be able to deliver products that the EU can not. That’s like FRG and GDR again.
If you can’t force countries into equally sized blocks, one will be the biggest and will lead, technologically at first. Can that be the EU?
In any case, there are hardly any countries with a surveillance (oppression) stronger than in China.
It’s telling indeed, that you ignore the hegemonial influence of the US.
I don’t believe in comicly stupidly greedy Americans. Why else should they have opened their markets?
Because we argue the future of the EU.
Tell me where the engineers come from who create the replacements.
If China implodes and the US is fascist, there won’t be a democratic China, nor a democratic EU.
I think that’s what is coming.
What gives you hope that the US would be democratic again? They are mimicing Roman history. China could as well become democratic.
The biggest chance for democracy would be both being equally strong and in need of the democratic states of the world.
Why is it inevitable?
Please take a moment. There is a difference between shifting dependency entirely and becoming less dependent by creating competition with a second supplier.
How? From where do you get the engineers?
What’s hard? The WTO thing was new to me. Yesterday I realized after half a year that I treated somebody wrong, which you can interpret as good or bad. I think I regularly change my mind.
Because it’s the wrong question. A weak China is a strong US is a weak EU.
A strong China is a weak US and a weak EU, unless China makes good on their goal of a multipolar world.
A mid China and a mid US allow a mid EU.
As long as you don’t tell me where the engineers come from I don’t see a way for the EU to become strong.
That depends. An ideal EU and the current China, I prefer the EU.
If the EU goes full surveillance and fascism, and China balances that for the rest of the world, I hope for the rest of the world that China is strong, even if my life would be better in a Neocolonial EU.
Who says I do? I just don’t buy the ‘useful’ fairy tale that China (or Russia) isn’t to blame for the effects of their own conscious decisions. One wanted a war of aggression, one wanted to allow capitalism and billionaires. No-one else to blame.
Dollars, why else? You know, capitalism and such…
Exactly. That’s why it is important for the EU to become independent of those “big players” who only care about themselves.
As of 2025, the European Single Market is larger than the Chinese and second only to the US. I know it is a popular strategy/belief to paint Europe smaller than it is, but frankly, we are strong enough.
China imploding and the US turning fascist is no concern of ours if we are independent.
Look at the domestic problems it’s facing. The promise of evergrowing wealth for everyone will no longer be sustainable. The promise of a nation led by and benefiting workers already is broken. Let’s see what happens next.
We already are supplied by China. We need less supply of them (or the US, just in case you forgot) to be independent.
How? China is already leading when it comes to surveillance an oppression of its people. Just because they don’t call their oppressing autocracy ‘fascism’ but painted it (vaguely) red doesn’t make it good.
The art of creating dilemmas or catch-22s. There was no winning move for them.
I asked you. I think they do things for long-term success and are not driven by greed alone.
Which is impossible with too few engineers.
We don’t have key industries. Being stronger in 2025 is only temporary.
If we have the market but nothing to sell then we are just giving away our substance.
But we are not. Youtube and TikTok will make sure that the fascists will win the elections.
That’s our promise. Are you sure it’s also theirs?
They are shifting to sustainable energy. Their population will accept ‘just’ a good life.
Decoupling will make us source all our supplies from the US. Do you see the problem?
To be independent, we need the engineers. Have you noticed how often I have asked the question without an answer? (Our market is big enough is not an answer.)
They have roled back their social credit system because it was too invasive. They can convince the world by finding a better balance than the West.
Yea right, the evil US is forcing their hands again… and nothing those poor countries can do against it.
What stops China re-nationalising the means of productions of those billionaires and locking them up like a proper socialist country should do anyway?
What stopped Russia from simply not invading Ukraine if it was such a mean trap of the evil Americans?
I told you. You like to believe in clandestine and carefully executed plans that would require an organised and monolithic elite to work - I believe in the sheer hunger for money. One of these works far easier out of the box… do you know Ockham’s Razor?
Wrong. Giving in to trade with China is giving away substance. In your vision, we are only consumers, which will only further weaken us. In my vision, we stop the transfer of jobs and technology in these countries and only trade with countries that align with us.
Just as China heavily governs the influence of YouTube and TikTok in their country, we can do the same here. If there’s someone trying to interfere here in the interest of a foreign nation, we can block them.
What else can they offer?
Hahaha! You might want to look up the amount of newly installed coal power generation in China…
The only problem I see is you constantly repeating your misunderstanding that decoupling from China has to mean coupling with the US. It doesn’t.
What is your fixation with engineers?? And why do you believe we don’t have enough engineers to fulfil our own demand? Where are you from?
Oh is that so? That would be the first time a state is voluntarily giving up control they’ve established over their population. How come you choose to believe them this story? Pinky promise?
Nothing, or the memory of the USSR and the opium wars.
Nothing, as Brzezinski has pointed out. They could have worked on joining the EU and becoming independent with us.
Then explain why all billionaires accept Trump’s policies and haven’t started an uprising before the election.
No, we can offer products as market leaders in many categories. But we don’t have the manpower to maintain all basics. E.g. we can’t have our own chip production, or if we have it, it will be less advanced.
So we need suppliers and we need competition among the suppliers.
Who will trade with us? Can they replace USA and China? We are the former colonial power of many countries and we wouldn’t have the best technologies.
You don’t understand that you need manpower for each technology and the EU doesn’t have enough to maintain them all.
They have their own, Youtube is forbidden.
Good luck establishing an EU alternative without the content. The US will use their IP to keep the audience on Youtube. Music acts, movies, streamers, the alternative will be empty. Start banning VPNs. The state will become totalitarian.
Isn’t a solid life in a world leading country not enough?
Right.
Because you have a vision. Sorry for the slight mockery, I still appreciate that attitude. I just hope that you develop a more realistic vision.
How do we prevent the coupling? Please don’t make me reply with ‘not enough engineers’.
Or scientists in general. What else creates the products that can be sold globally?
Who creates the services, products and tools that we don’t buy anymore from China or USA?
That’s engineers.
We don’t have enough because we don’t have the products right now. If there were bored engineers, somebody would have asked them to build our own products and services.
I know that we have decent education numbers. But how do we retain enough and the best?
Judge for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
Exactly.
Exactly.
What does Trump have to do with America enjoying the trade with China for more than 30 years?
Chip production is based in Taiwan. A democratic nation. We obviously will continue trading with them.
We will trade with ourselves and other democracies. That’s what it will lead to, as we will experience a phase of reversal after the globalisation. There will be new economic barriers between the countries in the future.
What are you talking about? We live in an economic bloc of almost 500m people. Far more than the US. We have all the manpower we want.
See? So why do you think this will be impossible for us?
You’d have to ask the exploited Chinese migrant workers and others maintaining the Chinese economy under slave-like conditions.
I’m sorry, but this is absurd. Inform yourself about the number of engineers, scientists and other fields of profession you deem necessary within Europe. I have the feeling you again have a strong opinion without knowing the numbers/facts.
You know that the Social Credit System isn’t the only way the Chinese state exercises harsh surveillance of its citizens, right?
So no explanation, no Ockham’s razor.
Because all countries are equal and the US is not motivating countries to align to their advantage, especially not a country so independent and not in need of military support as Taiwan.
The US gets the best engineers from all over the world. You can’t compare the numbers like that.
Have you stopped reading?
If their lives also improve, everything will be fine. To get ahead of your worries, I am not sure about that.
I have seen the numbers some months ago. There were surprisingly many but less than in Russia, rellatively.
Then please explain why we don’t have the infrastructure to be independent.
Yes. It was just to show that they have put a limit to their surveillance which suggest that they do it reasonably enough that other countries are not repelled by it.
That’s not how Ockham’s razor works. You try to explain something by having to resort to a lot of farfetched assumptions while there is one far simpler and easier. That’s why your assumption is unlikely.
None of this has anything to do with what I stated: we will continue to trade with democracies. Chip manufacturing is located in democracies, so your argument about us not having access to chip manufacturing is invalid.
Sure I can. Your error is applying the current circumstances to what will be in a future with decoupled economies. Things will shift accordingly.
If China can do it, so can we.
Exactly: if. We will soon find out what happens if not.
There you go.
Because there was no need. We believed in globalisation and the benefits it would bring. Now the times are changing.
Yea, however you got to that conclusion…
In any case, there are hardly any countries with a surveillance (oppression) stronger than in China.
So to expect them, the autocratic pinnacle, to become a role model when the US should turn fascist is absolutely absurd.
If you can’t tell that simpler one I must believe that it doesn’t exist. I would still like to hear it if you can.
The other side has to agree to trading, too. It would be enough if there is a 30% tax on international sales of chips from Taiwan but the US are excluded. Expect the US to be creative.
Btw, from which democracy are we going to get gas?
Do you want to build a wall? How about the rest of the world like India, who will not decouple from the US. Isolating Europe would be like USSR again that fell behind technologically.
China has their own culture. It’s also a bit arrogant to assume that we can do everything China can do. Africa could do everything the EU can do and yet they are still not as prosperous.
You have no plan to prevent the US from influencing the elections but full censorship. People will vote for freedom.
You know that we have been doing, for years? China collapsing is a regular headline.
This is not a vision but a dream unless you have a hard argument and not just hope.
Europe decoupling from the US is much more difficult than China automating their production. China will thrive while the EU will crumble.
Like African countries lacking the motivation to build their own industries?
Look at Intel trying to create the next generation production process or VW trying to write an OS for their cars.
Without an EU AI, all knowledge is revealed to the US anyway.
Why do you think the EU was worried about Boeing and built Airbus, but not about IT?
But even if you manage to replicate everything, China will have a billion people while the EU has half. So China will be able to deliver products that the EU can not. That’s like FRG and GDR again.
If you can’t force countries into equally sized blocks, one will be the biggest and will lead, technologically at first. Can that be the EU?
Look for the “hilarious bit” in the comments. https://feddit.org/post/20518878
You argue for politics that will keep the EU strongly coupled to a fascist US while you dream that the EU is independent.
If we decouple from China before the EU infrastructure is built, the most likely outcome is that it will never be built.