Imagine the price being… You know… The price…
What’s a world cup? America failing; land of poverty and circuses.
What the fuck is signing a reciept?
Never tip in the US. Do not listen to wait staff whining. The only reason they cry about it is because they make far more than they ever would on a stable wage. If you don’t pay them they will still receive the wage they agreed to.
Pepe Sylvia??? Charlie, that says Pennsylvania!
Fck the NY Post! It is a tRumpian rag not worthy of fishwrap.
Supporters say the move is intended to protect American servers
Protecting the servers from the customers!!This is a joke, right? If you really wanted to protect American servers you pay them respectable wages.
It’s not “culture” it’s unfettered capitalism. Make your staff beg your customers for their wage instead of paying it yourself, great for bosses.
#PAY YOUR FUCKING STAFF
I’ll never understand why the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” people see it as everybody else’s responsibility to cushion the inumerable blows from their abusive relationships with their employers.
I know what we have to do is hard but we can involve but punching your boss in the dick
I visited the US 3 years ago and tipping was a bloody pain in the bum. It added probably 20min to our meal as the waiters took a while to get change. Further, asking every 15 minutes how our meal was going was quite exhausting; mainly because we knew it was performative for more tips. We tipped 20% each time but it’s really, really frustrating not knowing the price up front.
Back home, I’m used to paying up front and then leaving as soon as we’re done. Waiters leave you alone, unless you’re a regular, and ask you how the meal was at the till if you pay after.
Protecting the waiters and barkeepers from what? If they just had normal minimum wage rules, and service was included in the price, they would not need “protection” from a self-inflicted problem.
Note that if a worker fails to get to minimum wage through tips, they are owed minimum wage by the employer.
However, minimum wage is pretty crap.
Your point stands that compensation should be baked in of course, it is just that normal minimum wage does kick in if the tips fail.
And tips are normally reported as a percentage of gross sales. Technically you can report less, but thats a good way to get catch a tax audit, and if the total tips reported from the restaurant fall too low the whole place will be audited. If your actual tips are short for the day the standard practice is to report the normal percentage and eat the loss.
No, that is not normal practice. If you do that, you aren’t just eating the loss of what your employer should have paid you, you would be paying taxes on money you didn’t make.
I had a manager at a bar try to feed me that line after a very slow shift and I refused. Anyone pushing that as standard practice either has been direly mislead, or is screwing you over for the company’s profit.
Wow, for real? This is a good argument in support of abolishing tipped wages. Is there anything you can point to for that being standard practice so my source isn’t just an internet person? It’s clearly not going to be written down anywhere, so I’m looking for an article or written testimony and not finding anything
That does not say over report your tips to the IRS if tips are so low they would have forced your employer to pay a higher wage.
I could see making that judgement call if the employer is a dick but customers are usually exceptionally generous tip wise, and you had an isolated slow night. However if day to day the tips are normal, then taking the hit for your employer is just a recipe for continued exploitation.
I imagine many people don’t know about tipping culture. But I’d imagine it’d pop up if you look online for American customs. I’d say this one’s on the tourists for not researching appropriately
What did you expect? They come from non tipping cultures. Where wait staff make livable wages. Not their fault we are incapable of paying people enough to live.
When in rome, do as the Romans do. You may not agree with it, but it’s how it works here and not doing it is taking advantage of a worker not the restaurant
Oh do fuck off with that. The customer isn’t taking advantage of the worker or the resturant. The employer is taking advantage of the workers.
If it’s not optional. Include it in the price up front so we all know what we’re paying.
So the restaurant owner is taking advantage of the worker but suddenly it’s my fault?
So, when in Nazi Germany… do as the Nazis do?
If you fully knew that Nazi Germany was Nazi Germany and you just decided to go anyway cause you love sports so much?
people like you, believing this kind of bullshit propaganda pushed by business owners lobby, are the reason why things are getting so bad in the US… next thing you’ll tell me unions are bad and affordable healthcare is some communist bullshit.
if the business is not paying their employees livable wage they should not work there and the business should go bankrupt. yes, there are many people who wouldn’t find any other job right now. and they can choose to suffer temporary unemployment now or accept to live indentured life forever.
history clearly shows that workers not accepting unbearable conditions ultimately leads to improvement for everyone. guilt-tripping customers into giving alm to employees instead of paying them actual wages is just postponing the inevitable.
If the business is not paying their employees a livable wage, customers shouldn’t eat there.
here we go again. always shift the blame…
it’s not us producing excissive amounts of plastics and offering no alternatives. you must separate your trash to save the planet!
it’s not us destroying the market and not paying our employees. if people really wanted the change they should boycot us!
Not willing to sacrifice any convenience yourself, blame the worker for their poor conditions. You’d cross the picket line if they did strike, quit lying to yourself.
How would a customer know that the employees aren’t being paid a living wage? The tip happens after the meal.
Fair, I should clarify, don’t ask another European customer. Ask someone who has been here for more than a week, we know by the type of restaurant.
If you’re sitting in a chair being served by a person, that’s a safe bet. The ones in this category that do pay fairly will usually tell you, they’re pretty rare so they kind of have to.
If you order from a counter or screen and take it out or sit down? Optional. They get paid, some better than others, but they get paid. These new screens will still ask for a tip but ignore that, it’s new and doesn’t need to be any more normalized than it already is. Exception: Coffee/bars. For some reason a lot of them aren’t paid well but even then you can just put a dollar in the jar for coffee or tip 20% at the bar at the end of the night. Some of these places still don’t even have the screens that ask yet, thankfully.
That’s about the long and short of it.
No it’s not. The only one taking advantage of workers is the restaurant owner.
If tipping is optional, why the hell would anyone “choose” to pay more? Imagine if I sold you a phone and said you can buy this phone for $500 or you can optionally pay an extra $100 and get literally exactly the same product. That’s tipping.
If tipping is mandatory, then make it clear beforehand that there is a mandatory fee and how much it is.
Or just gasp include it in the price like civilised countries…
If you raise prices then fewer people will eat at your restaurant because the prices are too high.
But the prices are already too high because of the expected tipping? Are you counting on people to eat at the restaurant because they didn’t expect to pay more and you can secretly price gouge them at the exit?
If anything the total expected price for a meal will come down because servers will be paid the fair market rate for their labour and not the current guilt trip percentages… the rise in prices won’t exceed the savings from not tipping.
I’m not counting on anything. If you read my other comments in this thread, it’s clear that I’m not defending tipping. I hate tipping. But I have to pour cold water on this all too common claim that one restaurant owner by themself can end tipping at their restaurant and survive as a business. It’s been tried before and failed numerous times.
About the best they can do is make tipping mandatory by putting an automatic 35% gratuity on the bill. But this is something only high end restaurants have gotten away with. Restaurants for budget conscious people (i.e normal people rather than rich people) cannot survive with anything like this.
The same story would apply for simply raising prices. People will see the restaurant as too expensive for what it offers and stop going.
If anything the total expected price for a meal will come down because servers will be paid the fair market rate for their labour and not the current guilt trip percentages
This claim needs a lot of support. Are you aware that 42% of all restaurants in Canada are already losing money paying the low wages as it is? To support your claim, you’d have to show how paying fair market wages, eliminating tipping, and charging more for meals would translate into higher sales.
I’d also like to point out that not everyone tips the same percentage. Some tip a lot, some less, some not at all. Those who tip a lot are in effect subsidizing the meals of those who cannot or will not tip as much. For people who cannot afford to tip at all, a move to a non-tipping system would represent an absolute increase in the cost of their meal.
I still don’t understand your point at all.
If a meal is priced $50 + a 15% tip is expected, you expect customers to pay $57.50 for the meal.
If you instead eliminate tipping and increase the prices by 15%, your customers will still pay the same $57.50 for the meal. You still have the extra money to pay your servers. How does that lead to fewer customers? They still see the same final price at the end of the day.
The rest of the world operates perfectly fine without tipping and in fact has better service.
Then your restaurant is too expensive to operate, this is very basic economics.
Restaurants are basically always operating on a razor thin margin.
I see them open and close every year in my city. Restaurants coming and going like a revolving door. The commercial landlords stay the same though.
Restaurants are notoriously difficult to run profitably (non-paywalled: https://archive.is/cQ2pB). I’m a patron of a lot of local restaurants and they definitely open and close a lot more than pretty much any other business I can think of (except maybe vape shops, remember those?).
Landlords are definitely an issue that needs to be handled as well but that doesn’t absolve the employer of paying their people a living wage. Tipping culture in general needs to die off.
If that’s not possible but they believe in their business, they could consider a different business model, maybe become an employee co-op so the employees have a stake and could see the fruits of their own labor one day.
This is the dumbest possible take on this matter.
Like, customers are stupid enough to both ignore that they need to add 20% on top of the bill, and still tip? What?!
We’re talking about irrational behaviour by customers and you’re surprised that it happens? Why do you think entire industries routinely use hidden fees that dramatically raise the final price above the advertised price?
Because it works! You may not like it, I certainly don’t like it, but I can’t dispute it because it does in fact work.
We’re talking about irrational behaviour by customers
No, we are not. The article is about foreigners in the US not tipping, which is not irrational behaviour, at all.
Why do you think entire industries routinely use hidden fees that dramatically raise the final price above the advertised price?
Because some governments, especially the US government, would rather punish their citizens than the companies scamming them.
Regardless, anyone in the US who is economically conscious enough to choose to eat out or not depending on prices, would inevitably take tipping into consideration, and anyone who isn’t, wouldn’t. The alternative would be people who cannot afford eating out not tipping, equally screwing over service workers, so your point is moot.
So, you are actually defending intentionally misleading your customers?
Everyone in the west knows about tipping. No one is being misled. There have been many attempts to run restaurants with higher prices but no tipping. They always go out of business.
Everyone in the west knows about tipping
That’s a bold assumption. I’m in the west too. Tipping is not a thing here (at least not in that way). Having a price on the menu and asking for more is also frowned upon here, not to mention illegal.
It is literally the exact same price.
They don’t do it because then they have to pay taxes on those tips
If you go someplace and get waited on, and you KNOW that not tipping them means you basically took their labor for free, you are also an asshole. If you think not owning the business abdicates you from that, then you are just as bad as the business owner who thinks the custom abdicates them from paying a living wage. You’re not a crusader for justice, you’re a cheap jerk.
In New York, which the article is about, the hourly wage for tipped employees is only $2.70 less than usual. So if a server waits on 5 tables an hour, each table only needs to tip $0.54 per hour to make up for the “lost” wage. Anything extra is just voluntarily financing the server’s fancy new handbag or iPhone. And in New York, like most places now, the employer is required to make up the difference in their pay if they didn’t get enough tips, so even if you don’t tip you’re not taking anything for free… the employer has to cover it.
Wait staff are assholes thinking they can guilt trip people to hand over extra money for free when they’re simply doing their job. Doubly so when they aren’t even sharing the tips with the kitchen staff who are doing the real work.
Their labour should be paid for by their employer, not the customers.
The only assholes here are the employers and the people who defend them.
you mean “when in a dystopian exploitative society, do as the dystopian exploitative societies do”? :)
Nah, fuck tipping. Pay a livable wage.
Rome has no tipping culture
These people are shit.
Most people from a non tipping culture don’t know how to tip. They don’t know how much, is it inappropriate, do the stuff get it or does management steal it. Really is a big deal.
I understand your point of view, and even to a certain degree agree (too bad it’s about tipping because fuck that). But these are not normal tourists you are getting, that did any kind of research. These people are here to drink beer and shout at each other, and are already very upset that everything is so expensive.
They are from Rome though…
This is the way, both for tipping and other local customs.
Tipping culture does exist in europe, but first of all, it isn’t nearly as “mandatory” as it is in the US, and second of all we tip way less. There isn’t a fixed percentage you “have to” tip. Usually, if the waiter was nice, it’s just rounding up to an even sum. At least here in germany.
