The future is self-hosted digital media. I’ve got no qualms with pirating media. But I am an advocate for buying digital media from artists directly.
AI music has entered the chat
I prefer dedicated digital players over physical media, for instance, a FLAC player with a digital library over CDs, but I’m glad to see this trend catching up. Anything that gets people building their own collections, escaping algorithms and escaping DRM/streaming is a huge win in my book.
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I’m curious as to why?
Physical media scratches, rots, burns down, etc. They also require a lot of space, and you can’t have it all with you easily.
My FLAC library is got the same or better audio quality, I can backup and copy in seconds for myself or friends, I can carry everything, or just curated playlists, with the toggle of a button, and I can preserve them on any medium I find - mechanical HDs, SD cards, SSDs, etc.
Though I am very curious about vinyl…
Your hard drive can be erased in many ways. And soon you wont be able to afford them or be allowed to own them.
Vinyl lasts forever. Its only damaged if you play it 😐
Your hard drive can be erased in many ways.
I’m willing to bet my main SSD, my backup HDD, my FLAC player’s SD card, and my laptop SSD all carrying the same file are going to be more durable than a piece of plastic.
Sure, but that’s a lot of work and worry to keep all those backups going and syncd…ugh. I hate dealing with it. Takes hours of my life. Now, you’re probably an IT admin or programmer like most people on Lemmy, but I don’t have 13 hours to sit on a computer and troubleshoot why Borg won’t work on my restic fluffywhatever. I’m sure you’ll say “its easy, justtttt…” Yeah, its not easy, I’ve lived it.
And in the end, you have a computer hooked to your stereo, the one place I’m trying to escape the constant computing.
A CD works just fine and I can burn another physical copy if I want it.
I’m glad your setup works for you! I have a nas packed full of stuff as well but I rarely use it for the reasons listed. Its a hassle.
Sure, but that’s a lot of work and worry to keep all those backups going and syncd
I think it took me 15 minutes to first install SyncThing and Vorta? I literally haven’t worried about this for the last two years
Now, you’re probably an IT admin or programmer
I’m a biologist :) (though to be fair, mastering in bioinformatics, but this setup came first!)
And in the end, you have a computer hooked to your stereo, the one place I’m trying to escape the constant computing.
My stereo is a Gradiente from the 70s, no computers there. My portable player does connect to a computer to sync sometimes… but I do this when charging, so out of mind.
They make record players that use lasers so they don’t slowly wear down the grooves
I recently revived my record player and CD player and I’ve been enjoying three things:
- You have to think about what to listen to,
- the player is completely offline and separate from the devices you work and communicate on, so nothing will interrupt and you feel you’re doing something different, and
- it means you listen to whole albums, not mixed up playlists, so you get deeper into it.
What I don’t enjoy is that records in particular are ridiculously expensive now. I don’t know who can afford them. So I’m stuck with the records and CDs of my youth and whatever I can find in bargain bins.
I do also use Qobuz and… other means of obtaining music.
But… those other storage mediums can also get damaged, burn, rot, etc and are also less portable (excluding the SD cards anyway).
You have a point except the portability. A single USB drive is infinitely more portable than a large cd collection.
Nothing a decent backup strategy can’t mitigate. Also less portable? Between the massive storage available on digital audio players and using jellyfin with something like symphonium digital audio is massively more portable.
But… those other storage mediums can also get damaged, burn, rot, etc
Sure can. You know what else they can do? Instantly and cleanly copy their data to any other storage device, they can even do so automatically every day!
A decent music library would require thousands of CDs, it would be a huge hassle. Why deal with that when you can just copy all of that to one hard drive?
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Because that’s not cool.
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Because its information overload (name even 50 albums and the songs on them. Humans dont need thousands of albums. Our brains are not meant for this much information. You can’t appreciate 1000 albums)
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It has no resale value. And if that HDD dies or you die and your family doesn’t know how to use it or how to decrypt it, its useless.
I don’t consider HDDs physical media per se. No one is handing down hard drives or selling them at yard sales. I can play my great grandpas 1890 shellac records. Think a hard drive will be able to do that? Hell no.
I don’t consider HDDs physical media per se.
Ok. But I can touch mine … they seem very physical.
No one is handing down hard drives or selling them at yard sales
Because it’s easier to just copy the data to someone else’s drive, no need to physically hand it over. Also you can still keep the CDs after copying them to another medium.
Because its information overload
That seems more like a personal problem than a technical one.
It has no resale value. And if that HDD dies or you die and your family doesn’t know how to use it or how to decrypt it, its useless.
Have you looked at HDD prices recently? You can definitely resell them. The ones I bought 3 years ago now cost double the price! And all data should be backup anyway so you don’t lose anything on a disc failure. And the last point can be addressed by either just not encrypting your drive or leave the proper instructions behind.
All in all those are minor inconveniences compared to dealing with thousand of CDs.
Everything you just said is a HUGE amount more work than my shelf of CDs and just taking one out and popping it in my stereo. Plus then I have the art and lyrics there. No screens.
Nothing beats physical media for simple enjoyment.
All your points about HDDs being physical assume you have computer knowledge to know what to do with a HDD.
There’s USB ones, but that’s what your limited to when it comes to casual users who just want it to work.
Everyone old enough knows how to handle a CD.
Even if you don’t use a USB one, you basically just put the thing in the slot and start up the machine, maybe it needs some formatting. It’s not brain surgery. Again, it still easily beats dealing with unmanageable number of CDs.
Everyone old enough knows how to handle a CD.
Actually, more and more people are too young to know how to handle CDs these days.
“Put the thing in the slot”.
Which slot? Where?
“Formatting it”
Format a drive? What’s that?
“Its nor brain surgery”.
Your assuming a tech literacy that simply doesnt exisit in the general populace.
HDDs are not designed to last very long. Neither are SSDs. That’s one reason to prefer dedicated physical media.
You can still keep the CDs around for archive purposes, but to me CDs are no longer a viable option for actual media playback.
If you spend a lot of time sitting next to a CD player they’re still OK for now. For music on the move, not so much. And when the player breaks it will be hard to replace. So they’re definitely not perfect.
Ssds die randomly without warning. Ask me how I know. Then worrying about all your backups, are they going to work? Are those drives failing? Its a huge headache for a real world person that doesn’t spend 24/7 talking about Linux on Lemmy.
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“Ooh I wanna listen to [song], let me just…find the CD…put the CD in the tray…find the track number…skip to that track…wait for CD player to scan and start…”
FLAC is everything good about CDs minus the headache. Sure you can’t physically hold the liner notes but it’s not like that hasn’t been digitized, too!
I only listen to albums all the way through when using CDs and vinyl, so track search doesn’t matter to me. CDs are the pinnacle of digital physical media for audio. Large enough, copyable, portable, not too big to store.
But the rest still applies so in what ways are a CD better than FLAC? Flash drives take up even less space and can hold hundreds of albums. Arguably even more “portable” because disc drives aren’t common anymore
Its much less user friendly. I hate the permeation of computers in every aspect of life. When i want to listen to music, I turn on my stereo stack with turntable, 5 disc changer, and reel to reel. So relaxing. Computers have too much going on, updates, notifications, crashes, hard drives dying, blargh. I deal with that all day long. A record or CD is the fastest way to enjoyment without distraction.
I should mention I don’t really listen to music outside my home as it will never sound as good as my home speakers. Dynamic music sounds like trash in cars and headphones will never be as good as speakers for spatial recognition. I don’t even have wireless earbuds.
You don’t need a computer at all, there are dedicated media players (yes they’re still “computers” but not PCs with updates and other stuff on it)
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Large enough
Too short.
My wife is “xennial” and her music tastes skew younger. Lots of younger artists are selling cassettes and CDs at their merch tables. We have more tapes and discs in our house than I ever had in the 90s.
How do you even play them? I could only see myself taking these media, ripping them and putting them back on the shelf.
Which is a nostalgic hobby
With a nice stereo system? There is also specialized hardware that can play and digitize any kind of retro media (cassettes, vinyl, disks)
Thrift store boombox.
If you don’t hold it, you don’t own it. Unless you take the DVD from them, you can’t remove their access to the movie stored on that disc.
Technically network connected blu ray players can be updated to region lock you out of your content.
Sony had this bullshit on the ps3 which muted you playing certain sony media. Cinavia
Gross
So don’t connect them to the Internet
Yes, just being pedantic with a risk that people don’t think of.
I think the blu ray secret keys leaked so you can rip them anyways.
Normal blurays are easy to rip. The 4k ones need a drive with hacked firmware.
DVD and especially blue ray still have DRM and license terms, which . means you still don’t own it. Only way to own media is to pirate it
That’s completely bullshit. I can’t hold any of the thousands of videos on my NAS, yet they can’t remove access to them.
Dvds are another form of pollution. We don’t need rotting plastic circles to store our videos on. Pirate your movies and own it for far longer than a DVD will be readable.
Hold in your had = physical access.
NAS counts
You can’t hold your NAS? It actually weighs very slightly more with data on it.
DVD have already polluted and currently exist and are rotting, and need to be ripped to longer term storage, especially for media that is becoming lost and needs a custodian to host so it can be pirated online. A lot of things cannot because no one has it, but it still exists in physical form.
Some may be ok with a whatever resolution streaming service webrip but I want the original dvd HD remaster, before they re-remastered it with only a single layer disk instead of double, messing up the original faithful rerelease that was already anticipated during filming when the show was filmed in HD widescreen film, but originally released in SD for broadcast due to the time. Plus, you can’t webrip the “banned” episodes if they’re not available.
People! Try Yt-dlp, when spotify decide to make Spotify Developer available again, then yt-dlp plugin integration with spotify, still, in anna’s archive i think they will make available if not already the hundreds of TBs of metadata and songs managed to get from Spotify so media preservation and ownership will also be in the digital space
Lets also put “quitting your job” on there because thats what i see a lot of ppl not doing because they feel bad about it
FYI, Tidal is approximately the same price as Spotify and there are several tools floating around on GitHub which will allow you to download high quality flac files from that service.
For families, Tidal is even cheaper. But it’s majority owned by that Twitter asshole Jack Dorsey. Just another fucking billionaire.
qobuz too!
3D printing your own guns
Just buy a normal fucking gun, this is America ffs there are more guns than people.
Yeah. 3D printing a gun is a great way to blow your hand off.
Don’t 3D printed guns have normal parts except for the slide and handle which are 3D printed?
Some people make their own barrels with electro chemical machining. But that’s usually for people who can’t get their hands on parts.
We’re not all Americans.
What are you, Swiss? Australian? Irish?
The same applies.
Planet is choked with guns. They’re everywhere and very easy to get. Absolutely no reason you need one that’s been churned out by a printer you got on Temu.
I’d have no idea where to get a gun in Japan. I’d rather just 3D print one if things got bad enough.
3D printed guns are being used by rebels in Myanmar. They are valid weapons capable of fighting in a war and far more powerful than anything I could legally get in my country.
I wish blue ray 50 GB discs were more used.
They have really good shelf life and it would be awesome for things like yearly backup of your photos or some shit like that.
Agree and this is very informative about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA9Xq7hb6Q0
He also has another video somewhere to stress test some of the disk types I think
I have bad news for you - Panasonic, Sony, and Samsung have all stopped production on BR-R discs.
Verbatim still manufactures their DataLifePlus series of BD-Rs, and they are excellent. The market otherwise is pretty bleak… Ritek offers nothing that compares to the DLP discs.
Also, side note, Pioneer (once a leading manufacturer of BD burners), no longer makes them. LG is the lone surviving manufacturer I believe.
Yeah, Verbatim still remains… For now.
Oh that’s right - I forgot that the drives were slowly going disco too. Bleak indeed.
they might bring it back with HDD drives going AIxtinct.
Yeah because i want to own when i buy things
I’m happy to just pirate this shit.
I don’t buy band media anymore but I do go out to live shows and buy t-shirts and other merch like nobody’s business.
Record company middlemen and forever streaming can take a hike.
I do go out to live shows and buy t-shirts and other merch like nobody’s business.
Who doesn’t love a cool band t-shirt?
- My wife, just before she stole my band shirt
In fairness, she looks better in it
In fairness, I only bought the shirt in my size so that it would be comfortable for her to sleep in. I never actually planned to wear it. Shame that it’s a fucking Disturbed shirt and that I wanna set fire to it.
at least she didn’t grab the limp bizkit shirt that your older sister gave you in '02
Yeah revolutionary concept
GenZ are so hollow with things like this. They embrace it as fashion.
um…because they are dumb, like their parents.
… No they aren’t. Way more are just keeping their own digital media on their own storage. Even more are still just streaming. The least are watching DVD and Blu Ray.
FR, people are also using digital media way more than they’re popping on a vinyl. It’s okay that these are niche subcultures. Not sure why everything has to be framed like it’s a cultural or political revolution.
Most people are braindead and mindless consumers across all generations, but there’s a really large portion of people who are more conscious about the value of personal property. Weird that most of them are the communists and socialists while liberals and right wingers in general basically all want big corpos to violate our anuses with as much brutality as possible
Great sentiment but still optical media bad
I mean I guess if they distributed movies on thumb drives it would be more convenient. But optical discs are used for a very good reason: they are extremely dense for the price.
You can pull it on HDD and that should be good enough preservation
magnetic media good?
Clay media best.
Found the Sumerian.
𒂆𒆬𒌓𒌨𒀭𒐈𒄫𒋗𒁀𒋾𒀀𒁀𒀭𒌓𒁶𒂊𒀭𒁕𒌇
Cave painting better
I totally get it. Kids missed out on everything good.
Too bad DVDs and CDs will quit being made soon, and disc rot sets in on most discs in 20 years. Luckily mine have survived. But make backups. Although that’s why “they (the rich)” want to drive up the price of HDDs so we can’t afford it, so we are tied to their cloud systems forever.
Good luck young people !
that’s why “they (the rich)” want to drive up the price of HDDs so we can’t afford it, so we are tied to their cloud systems forever
That seems like a reach. Hanlon’s says they’re just buying HDDs for their Artificial Imbecile service.
Maybe, but its not surprising that it fits their agenda perfectly. Build the slop generator and make it impossible for the population to own their means of computing. Future computing will be a dumb terminal on bezos net, and you will be an ostracized weirdo for not using it.
Properly manufactured Audio CDs are actually quite resilient, obviously not so much to scratches, but out of all my 100+ CDs (I’d say half of which are older than 25 years) only one has disc rot and that one is a pressing made by PDO who’re known for their bad pressings that are prone to disc rot.
I don’t really store my CDs in a special way either.
The life span of CD/DVD is not on the printed media but on the media we make/made our backups on. Of my many spindles from back in 2k (some disks are almost 25 yrs old), so far maybe 5 disks have gone partially or completely unreadable, lucky I didn’t lose much. Baring scratches or other physical damage, the printed disks will last decades where my disks have outlasted prediction
Too bad DVDs and CDs will quit being made soon
We’re still making vinyl records. What on earth makes you think we’re going to stop making DVDs?
Vinyl has hipster vibes and false audiophile claims. CDs and DVDs dont. They won’t be profitable in a few years and then bye bye factories. Just like vhs. I’d still be buying vhs takes if they made them but they dont. Same with CRTs.
They won’t be profitable in a few years
I just don’t know where you get these claims from
History. They don’t make vhs players or CRTs now do they? Even though they had huge benefits to modern (vhs, recordable and durable, CRT, durable, repairable, instantaneous response and perfect blacks) digital convenience trumps all for the majority population. Its also about control. You literally cannot buy a non smart TV any more (OK fine, digital signage, but you won’t get a remote) and some of them will not even function unless you connect them to WiFi. Hekk no.
They don’t make vhs players or CRTs now do they?
There’s an enormous inventory of New Old Stock and refurbished units that more than meet demand.
You literally cannot buy a non smart TV any more
That’s absolutely not true. The real limit on Dumb TVs is the size. Emerson and Westinghouse both make dumb TVs, but they cap out at 50".
Wrong, CRTs are getting very hard to find now and people smash them for fun. 10 years they’ll all be gone or many thousands of dollars.
Where did you find those TVs? I’d like to know!
CDs were so much better for my kids than any other digital player. Especially when they couldn’t read yet. It’s much easier to choose a CD and put it into a player than opening an app to search for something.
I’ve used CDs with my kid for music, it works well for us too
And gets them away from screens!! We don’t need more screens in today’s world.
Blu Ray is where it’s at. Give me some actual quality bitrate baby.
I think part of it might be that DVDs are easier to find used or just cheaper new. GenZ isn’t really rolling in cash and in my area for example used stores rarely if ever carry Blu-ray.
It’s both for me. Some things are either not on BluRay, too rare and expensive, or the transfer on BluRay is actually worse. And besides, any BluRay player is a dvd player too.
Anyway, any physical collecting or pirating needs to encouraged because streaming is such a stupid model now.
And decent resolution: DVD is forever stuck at SD (480p MPEG). While Blu-ray can be UHD (4K HEVC).
I’ve always kinda thought about implementing a software and standard for 1080p av1 on DVD. Would be neat as a project, obviously no commercial use would exist.
Either way you can get some really impressive encodes out of av1, really neat tech.
Unless you get new DVD players to support AV1, just put the AV1 files on a data DVD…
No that’s the idea, it would be to make a piece of software which if thrown on a sbc with a DVD drive becomes a player.
Which really isn’t too far off of DVD and most bluray players.
Though I wouldn’t be shocked if the super cheap DVD players have some sorta all-in-one integrated asic for most of the job.
Would mostly be used by hobbiest making their own burned discs and small artists releasing stuff.
I mean if you control the software on the “player” you don’t really need a dedicated dvd format. Think about mp3 CDs, it never became a real format with specs and everything yet most CD players after a certain date supported them.
Yeah but if you make it an open format other hobbyists could make their own hardware/software about it.
Mostly a fantasy medium, but if people start using it for art, then hey neat.
If you ever wanna play 4K BDs on PC, you’ll need a 4K-compatible drive that’s been hacked with LibreDrive though, otherwise you’re stuck using a dedicated set-top player for those.
1080p discs can at least be handled by libaacs and libbdplus /w the necessary files, and don’t necessarily need a hacked drive to play back.
It’s not even 480p, it’s 480i with a resolution of 720x480 regardless of whether the content is 4:3 or 16:9, the pixels get stretched one way or the other. That’s for NTSC discs, PAL discs have a higher 576i (720x576) resolution but the movie is sped up 4% cause it forces 25fps when it should be 24.
This is a good point. Even worse! Weird anamorphic? pixel aspect ratios (or maybe pan-and-scan crops? or hopefully that’s just VHS). With a bonus of interlacing! “The horror!” I haven’t ripped a DVD in ages due to video quality issues.
Oh all those full screen DVDs are in fact pan and scan just like VHS.
We are forever fucked over lots of TV shows/movies that are caged within the stream services realm :/
Most DVDs produced will be rotted out within 20/30 years at most, only option is ripping what you can and migrate the collection to a new drive every decade, just make sure it’s a secondary drive and is of archival quality.
Burned disks, you’ll probably lose some over 30 years, i’ve lost a few in 20 years, most are still readable.
Poorly pressed disks, you might lose one here or there. I had a two where the aluminum was poorly sealed and flaked off the label side.
I have hundreds of DVD’s in the 20-30 year range and have never had a problem reading any of them that weren’t scratched save the couple that were lacking in top lacquer.
Rotted within 20/30 years? Honest question where did you get that ? I have 40 yo cds that are in pristine condition why would dvds be different?
The density of DVDs makes them less resilient than CDs, but CDs will also suffer the same fate. It’s going to be a very serious conservation problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot
Exactly, and I imagine blurays and DL dvds will suffer even quicker. However the quality of the plastic is also important, we started cheaping out and it’s noticable, look at VHS or Tapes as we moved forward the quality of them dropped.
probably the same reason I refused to leg it go.
I actually own it, control it, and can use it at my wimsy.
vs streaming, which I could buy it and still have it taken away from me cause you never own anything when its streaming/digital download.
