i don’t know why i didn’t expect hisense to do it.
Would it not make sense for them to? Since they make budget televisions, they have to subsidise the cost somehow.
Either that, or because they’re so budget, you’d expect them to cheap out on the electronics and not bother with anything that sophisticated compared to a bare-minimum chip.
The TVs absolutely have automated content recognition. They use Unruly and nexxen.
https://web.archive.org/web/20250122111405/https://unruly.co/vidaa-partnership/
https://nexxen.com/nexxen-vidaa/
I also stumbled across a diagram lately that showed how this data eventually flowed into displaying ads for medical products. The size of this platform behind the scenes would be huge.
From the article it appears to be some technical experiment in Spain they were too disorganised or lazy to remove from the ROM.
Oh they are that cheap.
Don’t let your TV be on the internet.
What could have go wrong by connecting a screen to internet!?
Humanity.
Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).
I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV’s via an update that I didn’t want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.
They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.
I outright told them it’s illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn’t care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.
You can likely sue them in small claims court. Many states let you file for a couple hundred dollars and will give you 3x damages if you win.
The most likely outcome is they settle when the court date approaches or dont show and you win hy default.
There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.
There’s a good documentary about it.
I can neither confirm nor deny that @RustyShackleford@piefed.social is man of taste.
Time is a flat circle.
I can neither confirm nor deny baked goods preferences without counsel present.
And if time really is a flat circle, then one of us should remember this conversation already.
I don’t.
Which means you’re early… or I’m late. 🤔
I know they’re different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.
I did the same thing, their bullshit ad infested updates were the final straw,
I got a TCL last year and it wouldn’t let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.
If you are using a network level block, make sure it’s a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.
Yep, same issue with Firestick here.
What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn’t pihole. It seems to have worked for now… Is that a good solution?
No, it’s not robust. It may work for your TV, but it can be worked around.
DNS is like a phone directory for Internet: it translates domain name to IP addresses. If you block the DNS (what pihole does), it blocks the directory access. But if the IP address of the servers are hard-coded in the firmware, the TV does not need a DNS, it can reach the server directly.
To trick the TV, you need to restrict the IPs it can reach. It might be delicate: it probably tries to ping some comme IPs to check it’s connected, then call the brand’s server for ads/updates/etc.
Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV “sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline.”
If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn’t get blocked. Heck, it probably won’t even show up on your Pi-hole’s logs.
If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don’t matter for shit.
I don’t think my tcl TV has it hardcoded because my pihole is always blocking tcl domains
![(https://media.piefed.social/posts/tU/o1/tUo1JxYy1qjG7g4.jpg)]
Your Pi-hole can only block the things that query DNS. Try this, ping a website you don’t normally go to, and you should see that show up in Pihole log. Next, ping an IP, I usually pick on 8.8.8.8, and see if that shows up in your Pi-hole’s logs. I’m fairly confident it won’t.
Where can I find out more about black holing a site?
Cool! Thanks!
Wait till they start paying netflix to relay data for them :)
Their Google TV models have a basic mode which lets you use it without internet with no bypassing.
As do the Roku TCL models. I currently have mine disconnected and plan to keep it that way.
Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it’s not connected.
Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn’t help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the “never connect it to the internet” camp for future TVs.
Buying the TV and then not connecting it still rewards the bad behavior.
We have to boycott these fucks and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
You’re implying there is an option other than not owning a TV. Please send us specifics so we can join you.
You used to be able to still buy ‘dumb’ TVs from Sceptre up until a year or so ago, but even they’ve stopped selling them now. (I’m kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance…)
But the important part of my comment was this:
and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
I mean, that’s great in theory. But the amount of manufacturers of non-smart TVs is tiny, and if you are interested in the best panels and display technology, refresh rates for gaming, etc (even removing affordability), it’s very very hard to just boycott if you want to have a modern TV at all.
The best panels for gaming are on computer monitors, not tvs.
Getting the ad-subsidized tech without the ads sounds like a win to me
You are paying for features you don’t use (such as Internet access). That’s not a win.
They’re saying the company may be selling the device for less than the cost to produce it expecting the low price to draw in consumers while their predatory ads rake in much more money, so buying it and never connecting it means they took a loss. I’m skeptical that companies would do that these days. More likely they overcharge for the physical hardware AND have predatory ad software, you know to maximize shareholder value.
Even if that were true, you’re still paying more than you would be for a “dumb” TV that doesn’t have those features. So everybody loses but the company selling the hardware still sees a sale. They lose a lot more if they pay the cost to produce and then never sell the device.
[Citation needed]
There is zero fucking evidence whatsoever that the alleged “savings” from the ad “subsidy” are getting passed to the consumer.
Automatic litterboxes, fancy toothbrushes, vidya consoles, air purifiers are all examples of physical items often sold at a loss in anticipation of a future revenue stream off the top of my head. Ad specific, lower end smartphones are cheap to free because the money comes from selling your data (by way of tracking apps the manufacturer is paid to include). That their motives aren’t altruistic kinda goes without saying. I would be very surprised if televisions were excluded from this process, and need a new explanation for walmart’s sub-$50 ad-choked tv selection
I wasn’t asking for a citation that their methods aren’t altruistic; I was asking for a citation that they aren’t enshittifying the product with ads or subscriptions or whatever and then gouging you for full price anyway.
Was gonna say, LG does the same thing.
So far my only TV that hasn’t forced things in an absurd way has been my Sony… Guess what Sony just did? (Sold their Bravia TV line to TCL…)
I’ve never connected my LG TVs to the internet and they work pretty well.
I hear you can jailbreak them, which is appealing to me.
No shit? I might have to try that, only problem is my spouse will kill me if I break it… (primary TV)…
Are people loading AOSP on there or something? I’m tired of the telemetry and ads LG built in, but my blocklists have seemed to block one of my LG TVs from working. I have a disabled adult in my home and I think Kodi might be too complex for them.
Nothing like Android no. You get the ability to install apps not available in the webOS store, homebrew basically. This is useful for running hyperion (open source project) for driving your own LEDs behind the TV for ambiance. I haven’t peeked in that scene in a year or two but last time I did, the latest TV’s or latest updated TV’s were not easily hackable.
The person I was talking to just said they had jailbroken WebOS (LG runs webOS not android) and could do whatever.
Mine’s never connected to the internet before, so I don’t really feel any need to jailbreak it. Though apparently you can ssh in and do stuff, and that sounds kinda cool.
Sony offloaded manufacturing to TLC. They made a joint venture and TLC gets to manufacture and distribute them, Sony does development. Sony still has control. What we may see in the future is build quality decline. I doubt it’s gonna effect the software much.
Um…no they don’t?
Mine definitely does, disables applications and will lock the screen on update demand if you go long enough. At the bottom of the tv says it LG.
My Hisense got worse in some ways after an update, support provided a file to get the previous firmware back and told me to disable updates. ¯\(ツ)/¯
Funny story, they actually did this to me before this all happened, and I was on a “I’m never going to update again” beta firmware that they gave me a link to, when the forced-update happened that broke my wifi. I didn’t disable any ADB-level processes, and I don’t think the system let me disable updates.
My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They’d get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn’t start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.
Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.
Hisense are also selling their TVs with different specs on different markets which is really annoying. In the United States you get Google TV but in Europe you get the awful Vidaa OS where you can’t install Google Play Store. And the big national TV streaming apps are missing in their own app store where I live.
I talked to a retail seller and he said that they ultimately had to stop selling them because they got so many complaints and returns. Maybe it’s a licensing issue or something but it’s just such a braindead decision that is damaging the brand.
Chargeback?
Would have loved to. It was just over one year (right after the warranty ended as well), though.
Is that your card issuer’s policy? I’ve done a chargeback past a year.
I am trying to recall, I think I did look and it was past the time period. I should have tried. It’s +2 years now, though.
Anybody have un-enshittified 4k tv recommendations?
Mainly want good picture quality for movies + high refresh rate for games.
A Google TV. That have a “Basic TV” mode which lets you use it without internet.
Well what about a PC monitor? You can get u to like 43" and beyond. Obviously they are great for gaming as well.
The other very impractical mention - after TVs starting adding ads, cameras and microphones, I switched to a 2nd hand projector. Most have no smart features.
All you need is a white or off- white wall to protect on to. And the ability to block some light coming into the room.
Downsides:
- They can be bulky and noisy. Particularly the 4k ones
- might need separate speakers
- Not as low latency as a tv but models do come with VRR
- bulbs do get darker from prolonged use (and aren’t always cheap to replace)
- you might need separate speakers
- and there are the trailing cables
- And you’ll never get the inky blacks of oleds. But for picture size and immersion for the cost, they are basically unbeatable.
Some can project from a coffee table.
For tv series and YouTube like content, I use a laptop. Then for big movies, I use the projector and 5.1 sound system (mostly 2nd hand as well.)
Just a heads up that the Smart virus is spreading to monitors, too. In a few years most monitors will be Smart.
projectors are just not a practical recommendation for most people. unless you take pretty drastic measures to set up your room like a proper theater, the picture quality will be drastically worse than an average TV.
Indeed, that’s why I mentioned a PC monitor first
There are still non-“smart” monitors (as opposed to tvs), get one while you can. I would but too poor. My world’s full of 1080p trickle down :p
My LG has been safe so far.
LG is solid as long as you don’t agree to the terms. I get no ads but I only use the internet on it to update the firmware. Samsung is more annoying with their ads.
I only use the internet on it to update the firmware.
You don’t even need to do that. I download firmware updates from the LG website, throw it on a USB drive, and plug that into the TV. Actually important firmware updates are so rare that I’m fine with the extra effort required.
yeah, i don’t have any desire to update my TV as long as I can plug in HDMI and get a picture and sound
Exactly. If it’s displaying the line-in correctly, I don’t see what a firmware update would bring to the table.
It’s a display. Once it’s achieved being able to act like that, then you should be done for as long as the hardware lasts.
i dont have an LG, but I’ve only had to firmware update 1 TV in like… the past 13 years, and that was because it had a horrible issue with the image vertically splitting in half and green corruption across the bottom. Which makes you think hardware failure, but it wasnt, the firmware update 100% fixed it for the rest of its life.
So unless you are facing a major, catastrophic issue like that, I’d say fuck updates.
LG OLEDs are still great. Mine is not connected to the internet and use an external media box (AppleTV). It can be set to turn on to the last used HDMI input instead of the Home Screen. I never see the LG OS.
I bought an LG a little while back. Looks good, no need to connect it to the Internet, you can turn on and off all the features you do or don’t want.
For now. That can change at any time with an update.
What update?
you can say that about literally any TV brand, this doesn’t help.
Hell yeah. I was considering a C5, but saw people online saying ads are present on LG.
I use shield anyway, but I will probably just follow your advice and set default input to the shield
No. Mine is totally connected. Use all the apps. I don’t get ads on it.
Mine doesn’t have ads. But like I said, I’ve never connected it to the Internet, so I don’t know if it would start showing them if I did. I just use a Chromecast, my Switch, or an antenna.
I have one connected to the internet due to WAF, but I never signed into an LG account on it. As a result, the “home” page just shows something about signing in “for the full experience” rather than any ads.
There are ads, but if you’re willing to slog through the settings you can get rid of them. I just used a pihole LG blocklist. I really enjoy using the magic mouse on the screen and I’m finding it hard to give up.
The biggest thing you can do is just never connect it to the internet. I even block the MAC addresses so ever if someone tried to connect it, it won’t. Then use an external box like a Roku, PC, or AppleTV to connect to your content.
And, if any TV requires an internet connection to set it up, immediately return it.
Exactly this.
“Smart” TVs never go online, never connect to anything but power and an HDMI, and quite frankly…if it didnt risk causing warranty headaches, I’d open teh fucker up and unplug its wifi antenna too.
Always use an old PC/Laptop/Raspberry Pi/whatever to get them online/on youtube/streaming/etc. You have full control over those devices, and can update them as desired and modify them at a whim.
Fuckin hate smart TVs. a bunch of fucking spyware and adware that just makes the device run hotter and die sooner.
We’re gonna need this “requires Internet connection” bit to be in reviews.
Would you consider an old plasma TV? They won’t be in 4K (I think they topped out at 1440p) but there are some real advantages to them (if you can tolerate the disadvantages).
Plasma burn-in is scary for games.
True… but that was greatly mitigated in later models.
I swear that the motion quality and the deep blacks rival high end OLEDs. Really, really good. So long as you can find a decent TV (like the one in the video).
The issue I have with them is - power draw and heat.
Yeah I’m still using the last of the good Panasonic VT50 models. It’s still going strong with a great picture. We got it in 2009. It’s early smart features were retired long ago.
These articles make me shudder what I might replace it with
My brother in law had one, it was very pretty
I have one in my room. It gets pretty hot with it and my PS3 running, and I live in Minnesota and sleep in the basement
What I hear you saying is you have great taste in consoles, a kick ass TV and a free space heater.
Lol yeah I suppose. Funny story how I got my PS3, I was on ebay and there was a “broken” one listed on ebay for a dollar. The seller said the blu-ray drive wasn’t working and replacing it didn’t help. That was a good day to be me, I tell ya
Never buy Hisense, got it.
i wish people were less tolerating about this shit. most likely users of those tvs will grumble a little at first and then just accept and eventually disparage anyone for speaking against it.
people should get way more angry about this publicly.
just think about how things used to be 50 or 100 years ago. Having a huge scandal could actually end someones career or put down a company. Now there is nothing shitty people and companies can’t do because everyone is so apathetic they wouldnt care if they themselves are the victim.
and when you do call it out, other consumers make fun of you and tell you you’re being annoying and to get with the times
see: LED headlights
Most people just dont care or notice. They go to work get money and then go to walmart snd buy whatever is cheapest. Theyre used to ads everywhere so they buy the ad infected tv and dont even notice anything wrong, ads are just a mundane fact of life.
What do you want them to do?
Idk how it is legal to push this change on people who have owned the TV for one years. It is insanity the world we live in.
There should be protections against this
be more vocal about how shitty this kind of behavior is and show support to those who are vocal about it.
If small loud minority can have effect on things, loud majority has big effect. It could for example lead to having protections against this because politicans would start to feel like their position is threatened if they dont, and if enough people care then they actually might be.
Just showing that you care about anything will have an effect even if people dont show it, because others will see that you care and if even one of those people also gets inspired by it you have done well. This is why its important to attend rallies too imo, even if you think it doesnt change anything. This is also why authorities want to suppress even peaceful rallies.
What does it even cost to you to be vocal about something that is wrong? People do it all the time about stupid things too, so why not do it for things that might benefit you?
And i dont mean be vocal just about this particular tv brand pushing ads all the time. i think its obvious but i have noticed it apparently isnt often.
Who the hell downvoted you for this, lol?
Fucking Hell? Just allowed it to update an hourago and already had a bad feeling and now I am reading this?
Anyone has a list of TV manufacturers that don’t suck yet?
I used to recommend Sceptre, but even they appear to have stopped making dumb TVs now too.
I haven’t had a Tv in years but because I wanna be cool or some shit but I don’t want to have one of these intrusive machines in the middle of my house. I already have enough of those.
It seems like a lot of the bigger names suck. I bought a Blauerpunkt and it is awful - not hackability wise but as a product. Probably for the same reasons as Nokia, Phillips, JVC etc are pale shadows of themselves (sold off / rebagged)
I have a Blauerpunkt, a TCL and a Samsung. Of the three, it’s the TCL that’s been the least locked down.
At this rate, I’m probably going to go for a short throw projector or just get an old school plasma if /when these go tits up.
Personally, I use computer monitors. They’re cheap enough. 32 inch ultra wide. 36 inch. They’re only getting larger and cheaper.
As for remote control, I hook it up to the computer and use unified remote.
At this point I consume most media literally on my computer or my phone, but I still want there to be a good solution for a big living room TV (50"+ range). I have yet to see any reasonable ‘computer monitor’ option for that.
The other problem with using a monitor as a TV, BTW, is that they often don’t have built-in speakers.
A projector might be an option, but they have their own problems, like with the contrast not being great.
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I’ve got a Sony and even it’s showing home screen ads - normally it’s just “suggestions” for shows on streaming services I don’t have, but the occasional car ad also comes through. I have a theory that the reason Sony are getting out of the TV business is that they don’t want to develop their own TV OS and they’re sick of their customers complaining about the ads in Google’s OS.
I’m about to get a 2nd one and I’m seriously considering a computer monitor hooked up to a mini PC running XBMC or something.
The easy answer is to use commercial displays. They are more expensive and may not have the latest tech BUT they last longer and don’t do the spyware shenanigans.
That’s one reason why I never connected mine to the internet.
They can’t force me if I don’t connect it to the internet
I can imagine future TVs refusing to work without an always-on internet connection.
I can imagine them shipping TVs with built in cellular data just for ads
… and exactly 2 weeks later modders will have figured out how to get their hands on the yummy free unlimited data inside it.
SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP don’t let them hear this!
…what am I saying? And idea like that they’ve had, just waiting for the price to be right. heh
I saw an unboxing for a TV for a Chinese market and it refused to start until the owner paired it with a Chinese phone otp for “age verification” 😉
🙈
Or having prebaked fallback ads.
Getting outdated ads crammed down your throat for companies or products that no longer exist is a special kind of trolling.
It’s going right back to the shop, if that’s the case. Not accepting an HDMI input means it’s not fit for purpose.
Bet there are children that need protecting!
Im still using an LG tv from 2007, and you could be too if you were my friend :^) I have jurassic park on bluray and i make pretty good popcorn
I’m never buying another TV again. I got a 48" OLED computer monitor that is now my TV. And I don’t have to use that HDMI garbage.
